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To: Terry Mross
According the the story I've read it was "the Jews" in the crowd who were given the choice.

I'm glad you clarified. Because of course "The Jews in that crowd on that day 2000 years ago" is different from "The Jews".

Surely you can see how this can cause confusion. After all, it's what this whole controversy is based on.

The Romans were all there on military duty. So the citizens where the Jews. They called themselves a "nation".

Actually, as another poster pointed out, there's no reason to believe that all the non-Roman-military members of that crowd were "Jews". There may have been many foreign onlookers, guest workers, I've read the Romans actually used Syrian peacekeepers, etc. Also even "Jews" was not some kind of monolithic culture but had different factions.

But you're close enough that I'll not argue the point. The main thing is to differentiate "the Jews IN THAT CROWD" from "The Jews". Some people can't tell the difference, I hope you can.

So, it was the Jewish Nation, or "the Jews", who were given the choice by Pilot.

Not really. Simple logic/geography/geometry/mathematics dictates that most of the Jewish Nation was not there on that day and had no idea that this stuff was taking place. What did those Jews who lived in other towns, for example, know of these events or the choice "they" were supposedly given?

If I was a Jew today ... I would say to those Christians who blame the "Jews", "Don't blame us. According to your beliefs the Father made us do it."

If I was a Jew today, I would say to those Christians who blame the "Jews", "Don't blame 'us'. Everyone who did this thing is DEAD. And even anyone who believes the Father made 'us' do it is spouting an idiocy; 'we' didn't do it, OTHER PEOPLE did, 2000 years ago. Maybe the Father made THEM do it, but not 'us'. I am a different person than those dead people."

Do you understand these concepts? Like the fact that a Jew alive today is actually a DIFFERENT PERSON than any of the Jews in that crowd? It's becoming unclear whether you do.

132 posted on 02/15/2004 11:10:26 AM PST by Dr. Frank fan
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To: Dr. Frank fan
I think we're saying the same thing. It's as stupid to blame the Jews of today as it is to blame me for slavery. And that's the point I was trying to make. I do not feel the least bit guilty about slavery no matter what Jesse Jackson says. And if I was Jew I wouldn't feel guilty about the crucifiction no matter what the KKK says.

You point out that not all the Jews were present that day. I agree. However, from the reading of the scriptures it certainly "implies" that all the Jewish leaders were present. Mel Gibson simply made a movie based on the facts he believes, as do all true Christians, to be true. I would fault him if he changed it claiming "creative license". We have history books telling the story of Washington at Valley Forge. If one was to make a movie one would have to rely on the facts one believes to be true. Mel did the same thing. It's obvious people are going to disagree. As you've seen what I've posted I don't blame Pilot or do I blame Judas. Many Christians will argue that point with me. Personally, I thank God for Pilot and Judas. If they had not done God's will He might have had to postpone everything until he could have found some new players.

People need to lighten up about this. If they don't like the movie don't buy a ticket.
133 posted on 02/15/2004 11:33:59 AM PST by Terry Mross
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