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To: PhilipFreneau
"It must then rest with the states, as far as it can be in any human authority." -- 1808" In so far as any human authority....

Of course since the rest of the organization of human authority in this country has determined that the Constitution and its guarantees applies to all governments in the the borders of the US.

I cannot believe you are having this much trouble understanding. Where did you go to school? Berkeley? One final time: the First Amendment applies only to the Congress. It reads, "Congress shall make no law...". Read the interpretation by Jefferson (above) over and over until you understand.

No schooling was here in the Midwest, at private religious universities.

The problem with your argument is that you have rejected my sources because they are evil judges - that is it, nothing else despite part of their job on the Supreme Court is to be Constitutional experts - and you have responded with one quote from Jefferson in the last year of his presidency. A quote which you yourself only understand that the federal government has no place in religion.

You are not accepting that the entire Constitution applies to all of the states. States can not violate the 4th if they wanted to, nor the 1st.

Anyone with half-a-brain knows that the Constitution guarantees the states a republican form of government (well, it did at one time), and the constitution prohibits the states from certain activities, such as Bills of Attainder (well, it did at one time), ex post facto laws (well, it did at one time), and it prohibits slavery (okay on that one, so far). What I said was the 1st Amendment did not apply to the states. Thomas Jefferson agreed with me, so I don't care whether you and other big-government leftists do, or not.

Obviously you are lacking that half a brain if the 13th and 14th apply to the states but the 1st doesn't....just because one speech of Jefferson led you to believe so. That statement completely destroy you own arguments. One amendment apllies but not the other.

BTW - the constitutionalist position does not make a left wing position....unless it gets in the way of your blessed theocracy of course.

Small, non-invasive government is a cornerstone of the conservative position. One that is overlooked by far-right, big government advocates like yourself - where big government is great when it furthers far right social principles.

The rest of us Conservatives want small, limited government at all levels because we trust the people to make their own decisions about their own life. They don't need the State as Big Preacher.

That is a typical leftist argument used to undermine our social mores and replace them with Marxist doctrines.

Not at all, it advocates that religion is the purview and responsibility of the individual not the state.

I realize this is an idea hard for a theocrat to understand that Conservatives have that problem with government being Big Brother, the Mommy of the nanny state, and Big Preacher of the Bible State.

610 posted on 02/25/2004 7:33:13 AM PST by Ophiucus
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To: Ophiucus
Of course since the rest of the organization of human authority in this country has determined that the Constitution and its guarantees applies to all governments in the the borders of the US.

That is BS, and you know it is. Unelected judges have determined that the Constitutition has no guarantees.

The problem with your argument is that you have rejected my sources because they are evil judges - that is it, nothing else despite part of their job on the Supreme Court is to be Constitutional experts...

I had no idea you were living such a sheltered life. Let me give you a few examples: In 1993, or so, Chief Justice Rehnquist was very upset that a law he supported was ruled against (5-4). The law involved asset forfeiture, an activity that is specifically prohibited in the Constitution at both the state and federal level. Rehnquist whined to the media, "This law was not too unconstitutional!" About a decade ago (maybe less), Justice Souter voted on the side of the teacher's union, explaining, "I know this law is unconstitutional, but I am supporting it for labor peace". Of course, if you have not been living in a cave this past year you will know that O'Connor and other Supremes publically declared that their considerations were based on international law (vs the Constitution). So get off this "evil judge" rant. Judges have been violating their oath since Marbury vs. Madison, and they (with few exceptions) deserve no respect.

Obviously you are lacking that half a brain if the 13th and 14th apply to the states but the 1st doesn't.

The other amendments apply to the states as well because there are no restrictive clause. The 1st restricts its prohibitions to the congress. Jeesh!!!

BTW - the constitutionalist position does not make a left wing position

Correct. You, however, believe that judges are the sole authority on the constitution. That is exactly what the leftists want the peasants to believe. Strict constructionists, on the other hand, believe the constitution is the supreme authority, and that there are co-equal branches with an executive and congress that punishes the judiciary when it steps out of line in its rulings. Modern day collusion between the branches renders that unlikely.

Small, non-invasive government is a cornerstone of the conservative position.

Exactly. Of course that (non-invasive government) is highly unlikely as long as our nation is ruled by judicial fiat.

The rest of us Conservatives want small, limited government at all levels because we trust the people to make their own decisions about their own life.

Sure you do. You sound more like a liberterian than a conservative, except no liberterian in his/her right mind would trust the sole interpretation of our constitution to unelected judges. Therefore, you must be a leftist troll.

611 posted on 02/25/2004 11:08:44 AM PST by PhilipFreneau
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