Evolution Critics Are Under Fire For Flaws in 'Intelligent Design'

Wall Street Journal ^ | Feb 13, 2004 | SHARON BEGLEY

[Prime Choice]

Biologist and Anglican priest Arthur Peacocke, for instance, argues that evolution is God's way of creating.

That's been my view all along. I've never seen the idea of Divine Creation and evolution as mutually-exclusive (or even competing) ideas. In fact, I find it even more awe-inspiring to consider that God built living things to be so adaptable to non-optimal conditions.

[The Raven]

>...evolution as mutually-exclusive (or even competing) ideas

Interesting - you used "evolution"....I suppose we can also say that God has "evolved" as well...from the worship of gods of fire, war, etc....

[marktwain]

Invoking God to explain what we can't otherwise account for, he says, is "a kind of idolatry," because true faith should come from within and not because we can't fully explain the natural world.

And this is kind of a mirror image of the argument that I have put forward, that if you are going to use faith to invoke a creator, why bother with trying to "debunk" all the evolutionary evidence? Just accept, by faith, that it was all created when the creator created the universe, complete with fossils, radioactive half lives, and ancient star light.

[Truth666]

God has not been documented with photography or film, so you can't post that here Request to intelligent freepers that believe in evolution - post the name of the species

[Prime Choice]

Interesting - you used "evolution"....

Interesting? The word is in the title of this thread. The subject matter itself is on that very topic. And my use of the word in a message is "interesting"?

I suppose we can also say that God has "evolved" as well...from the worship of gods of fire, war, etc....

Beats me, man. From what I've read, the last time God tapped anyone to speak on his behalf was over 2,000 years ago. He's been quiet on all matters of discussion since.

[PatrickHenry]

PING. [This ping list is for the evolution side of evolution threads, and sometimes for other science topics. FReepmail me to be added or dropped.]

[Lokibob]

Is it a coincidence that the earth is in the precise distance from the sun to spark life? 10% closer (a mere 9 million miles) and water would boil off, 10% further out and water would be perpetually frozen.

God proclaims his glory and demonstrates it every solar eclipse. The moon is set in such a precision orbit, and is exactly the correct size to blot out the sun for only a second or two. If the moon were slightly smaller, or the orbit changed, and eclipse would be far less spectacular. A coincidence?

Water becomes it's densest at a couple of degrees above freezing. This allows ice to float. Without this little feature, oceans would be solid masses of ice, from top to bottom. I can not believe this is coincidence.

To me, the hand of God can been seen in an awful lot of science.

Just one mans opinion.

Bob

[aardvark1]

"Oh Kettle, you're so black!" exclaimed the pot.

[Ophiucus]

This huge error jumped out immediately:

Moreover, the individual parts of complex structures supposedly serve no function. Because evolution selects only the fittest innovations, useless ones vanish. The odds against a bunch of useless parts lying around at the same time and coming together by chance are astronomical, mathematician and evolution-critic William Dembski of Baylor University correctly notes. emphasis added

For a feature to disappear, evolution must select against it. Selective pressure is a 'negative' in essence. If a feature decreases survival, then that feature is removed from the gene pool. If the feature aids or has no effect on survival, it remains.

Vestigial organs like the appendix are the obvious examples.

But that's what makes the anti-evolution arguments amusing at least, the shocking lack or misapplied knowledge.

[BB2]

I beg to differ on one of your points, even though most medical references still refer to the appendix as a "vestigial" organ, there is evidence that it does indeed serve a useful purpose. Studies have revealed that there is a marked increase in the rate of colon cancer in people who have had an appendectomy. It is now believed by some researchers that the reason is that the appendix produces a small amount of a lubricant that protects the bowel tissues from iritation.

If we do not "see" a purpose for something, it doesn't mean it isn't there, it only means we haven't learned enough yet to discover it. The more we learn, the less we really "know".

[John H K]

Is it a coincidence that the earth is in the precise distance from the sun to spark life? 10% closer (a mere 9 million miles) and water would boil off, 10% further out and water would be perpetually frozen.

Ever heard of the Anthropic Principle?

We're at a distance from the sun that could generate advanced life forms capable of thinking about and posting an internet message commenting on how far the earth is from the sun. Planets at the incorrect distance from the sun(and there may be trillions of those) will not generate advanced life forms posting on a message board commenting on their distance from the sun. And given our distance from the sun we're going to evolve life forms perfectly adapted to that distance from the sun.

Basically, our distance from the sun could very easily be dumb luck rather than divine intervention.

[BabsC]

Didn't Thomas Paine in his book "The Age of Reason", I think is his book say that the Laws of Physics and Nature were the "Word of God" and there for all men to learn and know? Just my 2 cents worth this morning.....

[glorgau]

Is it a coincidence that the earth is in the precise distance from the sun to spark life?

Yes

[RadioAstronomer]

God proclaims his glory and demonstrates it every solar eclipse. The moon is set in such a precision orbit, and is exactly the correct size to blot out the sun for only a second or two. If the moon were slightly smaller, or the orbit changed, and eclipse would be far less spectacular. A coincidence?

Actually since the moon is receeding from the Earth, this phenomena is a very short lived one indeed.

All of your examples give rise to the reason life is here at all. They do not posit a diety.

[RadioAstronomer]

Indeed. :-)

[VadeRetro]

Is it just a coincidence that mud puddles are always just the right shape to fit the holes in the ground so they don't stick up into the air?

[Ophiucus]

Studies have revealed that there is a marked increase in the rate of colon cancer in people who have had an appendectomy. It is now believed by some researchers that the reason is that the appendix produces a small amount of a lubricant that protects the bowel tissues from iritation

This isn't quite the case anymore. Studies have shown an increase in stomach cancer after an appendectomy but this is attributed to the H. pylori infection. The H. pylori is also the aggravating factor for the inflamed appendix. Colon cancer in populations actually decreases after an appendectomy as the appendix is the initiating site for many colon cancers. (Appendectomy during childhood and adolescence and the subsequent risk of cancer in Sweden. Pediatrics, June, 2003, by Judith U. Cope, Johan Askling, Gloria Gridley, Adam Mohr, Anders Ekbom, Olof Nyren, Martha S. Linet and Boffetta P. Infection with Helicobacter pylori and parasites, social class and cancer. IARC Sci Publ. 1997;138:325-329)Although the presence of hematopoietic and lymphoproliferative malignancies confounds a direct causal relationship. There may in fact be a preventative relationship between appendectomies and colon disease although this is still under debate. (Does Appendectomy PreventUlcerative Colitis? Reviewed by Douglas K. Rex, MDIndiana University School of Medicine, Indianapolis, IN[Rev Gastroenterol Disord. 2001;1(3):160] and Appendectomy and Protection Against Ulcerative ColitisAndersson RE, Olaison G, Tysk C, et al. N Engl J Med. 2001;344:808–814.) Again, this may be related to the removal of a possible instigating site. There was some evidence for the relationship you mention 20 years ago (A case-control study of risk factors for large bowel carcinoma, Vobecky J, Caro J, Devroede G. Cancer. 1983 May 15;51(10):1958-63.)but it was found that these populations used there was an overall greater occurrence of colon cancers. It is now thought that the increase in cancers is due to an induction of tumor metastasis from the stress of the surgery. (Increased surgical stress promotes tumor metastasis. Tsuchiya Y, Sawada S, Yoshioka I, Ohashi Y, Matsuo M, Harimaya Y, Tsukada K, Saiki I. Surgery. 2003 May;133(5):547-55.)

Basically, the trauma from the appendectomy causes small pre-cancerous or early cancerous area to become very active in the abdomen.

[Ophiucus]

Basically, our distance from the sun could very easily be dumb luck rather than divine intervention.

Plus there is some argument that the narrow band isn't as narrow as previously thought.

[Modernman]

I suppose we can also say that God has "evolved" as well...from the worship of gods of fire, war, etc....

Ancient cultures used to believe that a god existed only as long as he had followers. So, in a way, gods are also subject to evolution- those that cannot adapt to new spiritual environments end up dying out.