Stem Cells Mined From Human Embryo Clone

The Associated Press ^ | February 11, 2004 | AP

[Diamond]

It is clear that our representatives won't give any thought to religious reasons in these matters, therefore they must be provided with ethical or even aesthetical reasons

Thank you for your response. Now I understand what you are saying, and I agree with you.

One of the approaches that I take, and I don't know if you would agree with it or not, but I simply point out some of the provisions of the Nuremberg Code, which is not a religious document, and which prohibits experimentation upon human beings without their consent, and which experimentation is likely to result in harm to them or their death. Perhaps it might be convincing enough for some legislators to realize that NAZI doctors were hung for doing such things to people, and to ask how much more evil then is the deliberate creation of human beings for such purposes!

The horrible practices we are discussing rest on the premise that the powerful can covet and by brute force take and use the bodies of other human beings, which do not belong to the scientists or anyone else in the first place, and simply exploit those beings for their own selfish purposes.

If future accountability and justice are not enough to deter the proponents of such practices, perhaps a little enlightened self-interst might cause them to realize that if people are allowed to draw arbitrary lines between who has human dignity and who does not, it will prove to be a very dangerous boomerang. The lines will be simply be drawn at the will of the stronger. C.S. Lewis, in The Abolition of Man pointed out that every power won by man over nature is a power of some men over other men. If past experience is any guide I do not have much hope that the human race will take the right path.

Cordially,

[RightWhale]

Proponents of therapeutic cloning often retreat to the old homunculus argument concerning which stage of development of the embryo is considered a manlike stage or just proto-human. Proponents of both abortion and cloning want to draw the line that you referred to. I would like to see this "drawing of a line" examined in itself--not where to draw the line, which is begging the question.

[Diamond]

I would like to see this "drawing of a line" examined in itself--not where to draw the line, which is begging the question.

Exactly right. When such lines are allowed to be drawn in the first place, then where the lines are drawn is completely arbitrary. The powerful will draw the lines ANYWHERE they want. Not that they care about the arbitrariness of their lines; preferring prejudice and power over justice and reason suits their purposes.

Cordially,

[MrB]

One thing I haven't seen brought up is that these clones are made from cells taken from a human with permission. I haven't made up my mind on this one yet, but, just as a scenario - If my heart is going bad, and I give some cell tissue in order for an embryo with my exact DNA to be grown to the point that stem cells may be removed to replenish my heart tissue, or to grow another one...

it's a big step from, but not unlike, donating blood ahead of surgery for my own use during the surgery.

Before you jump all over me as a heartless evil bastard - I just posted the above for discussion.

[Diamond]

One thing I haven't seen brought up is that these clones are made from cells taken from a human with permission

I'm not going to call you any names, so don't worry about that:^) What I will say is that parents do not, (while not under Roe v Wade, in truth, anyway) have the right to give permission to kill their children for any reason, including the purpose of exploiting the body parts. Parents should be responsible for the care and nuture of their offspring, not their killing.

I think you would be considered the parent of your clone, and since you do not have the rights of ownership over the body of any other human being, including your offsrpring, therefore you would have no right in truth to give permission for such a thing.

Which reminds me of another reason that cloning is wrong; it is the creation of a human being outside the bond of marriage.

Cordially,

[MrB]

It's still kind of cloudy to me, since it would be like growing my own skin cells outside my body.

If the DNA were different, I would consider it a separate human (like a human fetus/embryo).

[Diamond]

I think that no one would have any moral reservation with you growing your own skin cells outside your own body. Human cloning, though, involves the creation and existence of a new human being. It doesn't matter that the DNA of your clone would be identical, otherwise you would have to argue that natural twins with identical DNA are not separate human beings.

Cordially,