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To: PatrickHenry; Junior
Good point. I did have a quote from Hitler, but without a directly quoted source, it certainly is questionable. He mentions evolution frequently in Mein Kampf, including the title which is more precisely translated as "My Struggle", which at the time would have been a pointed reference to the German translation of Darwin's works. Meanwhile, here's some Darwin quotes, with the sources quoted and if you don't think it reflects a philosophy that Hitler believed in, I'm not sure where to go from there.

"At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilized races of man will almost certainly exterminate, and replace, the savage races throughout the world."
Charles Darwin, The Descent of Man,
subtitled, The Preservation of Favored Races in the Struggle for Life

"The more civilized so-called Caucasian races have beaten the Turkish hollow in the struggle for existence. Looking to the world at no very distant date, what an endless number of lower races will have been eliminated by the higher civilized races throughout the world."
Charles Darwin in a letter to W. Graham, July 3, 1881

Regards, -TRC
145 posted on 02/10/2004 6:08:28 AM PST by TradicalRC (While the wicked stand confounded, Call me, with thy saints surrounded. -The Boondock Saints)
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To: TradicalRC; VadeRetro; Junior; Ichneumon; longshadow
Regarding your first quote, I finally found it in chapter 6. Here it is in context, with the part you quoted (the part everyone on your side of the debate quotes) shown in bold. As you can see, Darwin is discussing the place of man's first emergence, and the scarcity of evidence:
At the period and place, whenever and wherever it was, when man first lost his hairy covering, he probably inhabited a hot country; a circumstance favourable for the frugiferous diet on which, judging from analogy, he subsisted. We are far from knowing how long ago it was when man first diverged from the Catarhine stock; but it may have occurred at an epoch as remote as the Eocene period; for that the higher apes had diverged from the lower apes as early as the Upper Miocene period is shewn by the existence of the Dryopithecus. We are also quite ignorant at how rapid a rate organisms, whether high or low in the scale, may be modified under favourable circumstances; we know, however, that some have retained the same form during an enormous lapse of time. From what we see going on under domestication, we learn that some of the co-descendants of the same species may be not at all, some a little, and some greatly changed, all within the same period. Thus it may have been with man, who has undergone a great amount of modification in certain characters in comparison with the higher apes.

The great break in the organic chain between man and his nearest allies, which cannot be bridged over by any extinct or living species, has often been advanced as a grave objection to the belief that man is descended from some lower form; but this objection will not appear of much weight to those who, from general reasons, believe in the general principle of evolution. Breaks often occur in all parts of the series, some being wide, sharp and defined, others less so in various degrees; as between the orang and its nearest allies— between the Tarsius and the other Lemuridæ—between the elephant, and in a more striking manner between the Ornithorhynchus or Echidna, and all other mammals. But these breaks depend merely on the number of related forms which have become extinct. At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilised races of man will almost certainly exterminate, and replace, the savage races throughout the world. At the same time the anthropomorphous apes, as Professor Schaaffhausen has remarked,18 will no doubt be exterminated. The break between man and his nearest allies will then be wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilised state, as we may hope, even than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as now between the negro or Australian and the gorilla. [footnote 18 deleted]

With respect to the absence of fossil remains, serving to connect man with his ape-like progenitors, no one will lay much stress on this fact who reads Sir C. Lyell's discussion,19 where he shews that in all the vertebrate classes the discovery of fossil remains has been a very slow and fortuitous process. Nor should it be forgotten that those regions which are the most likely to afford remains connecting man with some extinct ape-like creature, have not as yet been searched by geologists.

Darwin is discussing the likely reason for gaps in the fossil record. Anyone who reads this as advocating that one race should run out there and start exterminating other races is deliberately distorting Darwin's meaning. Seen in context, the quoted sentence is no big deal. He's comparing gaps in the human record to similar gaps in the monkey record, and even regarding elephants. But plucked out of context -- a favorite technique of creationists -- one can get a false impression.

I don't have time to hunt down your second quote.

147 posted on 02/10/2004 7:19:05 AM PST by PatrickHenry (Theory: a comprehensible, falsifiable, cause-and-effect explanation of verifiable facts.)
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To: TradicalRC; VadeRetro; Junior; Ichneumon; longshadow
All right. I've found the source of your second "racist" quote:
"The more civilized so-called Caucasian races have beaten the Turkish hollow in the struggle for existence. Looking to the world at no very distant date, what an endless number of lower races will have been eliminated by the higher civilized races throughout the world."
Charles Darwin in a letter to W. Graham, July 3, 1881
Here is the entire letter, with your selected quote shown in bold font. Things I find interesting are underlined. Also, I've added several paragraph breaks for easier reading (the original seems to have been one long paragraph). My text comes from this website: The writings of Charles Darwin on the web.
C. DARWIN TO W. GRAHAM.
Down, July 3rd, 1881.

Dear Sir,

I hope that you will not think it intrusive on my part to thank you heartily for the pleasure which I have derived from reading your admirably written 'Creed of Science,' though I have not yet quite finished it, as now that I am old I read very slowly. It is a very long time since any other book has interested me so much. The work must have cost you several years and much hard labour with full leisure for work.

You would not probably expect any one fully to agree with you on so many abstruse subjects; and there are some points in your book which I cannot digest. The chief one is that the existence of so-called natural laws implies purpose. I cannot see this. Not to mention that many expect that the several great laws will some day be found to follow inevitably from some one single law, yet taking the laws as we now know them, and look at the moon, where the law of gravitation-and no doubt of the conservation of energy-of the atomic theory, etc. etc., hold good, and I cannot see that there is then necessarily any purpose. Would there be purpose if the lowest organisms alone, destitute of consciousness existed in the moon? But I have had no practice in abstract reasoning, and I may be all astray.

Nevertheless you have expressed my inward conviction, though far more vividly and clearly than I could have done, that the Universe is not the result of chance.*See below But then with me the horrid doubt always arises whether the convictions of man's mind, which has been developed from the mind of the lower animals, are of any value or at all trustworthy. Would any one trust in the convictions of a monkey's mind, if there are any convictions in such a mind?

Secondly, I think that I could make somewhat of a case against the enormous importance which you attribute to our greatest men; I have been accustomed to think, second, third, and fourth rate men of very high importance, at least in the case of Science.

Lastly, I could show fight on natural selection having done and doing more for the progress of civilization than you seem inclined to admit. Remember what risk the nations of Europe ran, not so many centuries ago of being overwhelmed by the Turks, and how ridiculous such an idea now is! The more civilised so-called Caucasian races have beaten the Turkish hollow in the struggle for existence. Looking to the world at no very distant date, what an endless number of the lower races will have been eliminated by the higher civilized races throughout the world.

But I will write no more, and not even mention the many points in your work which have much interested me. I have indeed cause to apologise for troubling you with my impressions, and my sole excuse is the excitement in my mind which your book has aroused.

I beg leave to remain,
Dear Sir,
Yours faithfully and obliged,
CHARLES DARWIN.

[Presumably, this is a footnote added by the editor, who I think was Darwin's son:]
* The Duke of Argyll ('Good Words,' Ap. 1885, page 244) has recorded a few words on this subject, spoken by my father in the last year of his life. "...in the course of that conversation I said to Mr. Darwin, with reference to some of his own remarkable works on the 'Fertilization of Orchids,' and upon 'The Earthworms,' and various other observations he made of the wonderful contrivances for certain purposes in nature-I said it was impossible to look at these without seeing that they were the effect and the expression of mind. I shall never forget Mr. Darwin's answer. He looked at me very hard and said, 'Well, that often comes over me with overwhelming force; but at other times,' and he shook his head vaguely, adding, 'it seems to go away.'"

I think Darwin was sloppy in his writing here. But in describing the Turks as "beaten hollow" he certainly isn't claiming that they have been wiped out and are now extinct. Merely that they've lost their earlier bid for supremacy over Europe. Yet they still exist. So far, Darwin isn't talking about anything remotely related to genocide.

That is the context for your second sentence. I don't know precisely what it means. When Darwin says: "... lower races will have been eliminated by the higher civilized races ..." does he mean extinction? Or does he mean, as in the Turkish example that leads up to this sentence, that Europe will be the dominant civilization (as seemed to be the case in Darwin's day, which was the height of the Brittish Empire)? The English weren't exterminating the people of India, for example. But the subject peoples of the Empire were being "eliminated" as global powers. It could be, therefore, that Darwin is merely refering to colonialism.

Anyway, the wording is vague, and opinions will vary as to what Darwin meant. It doesn't really matter. The theory of evolution certainly doesn't mandate extinction of one race by another.

170 posted on 02/10/2004 5:33:16 PM PST by PatrickHenry (Theory: a comprehensible, falsifiable, cause-and-effect explanation of verifiable facts.)
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