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To: Sunsong
What you say makes sense. Delphinium has claimed that there is no "bouncing ball effect" but that wolves will simply kill everything in site until there is nothing left :-) I agree with you that management could improve things from the harsh "bouncing ball effect". And that is a good thing. I think most of us (Delphinium excluded) believe that we can co-exist with wolves if they are kept to territory and managed well. This article provides different information than dmsTahoe and Delphinium have given and I think adds greater perspective to the picture. Some of the anti-wolf propaganda is nearly hysterical (not all of it), imo:

Management, This is where the rub comes in. Environuts take control away form the management professionals using legal and political means. Example: prop 117 in CA to protect cougars. The population has nearly tripled and wildlife has greatly suffered. But the management professionals can do nothing.

Years ago, I worked as a civil engineer in Southern CA. Because of environmental "considerations" Flood control districts were prevented from clearing brush and debris out of natural channels. You see, that was habitat destruction. Then every so often, you would get a storm that would blow a channel clean, (this was accompanied with flooding and property damage.) Since the habitat was destroyed naturally, the flood control districts would immediately come in and line the channels with concrete. This would, of course, prevent future habitat problems.

It was Stupid. and expensive, and destroyed the natural aquifers, damaged beaches and did all sorts of environmental destruction. BUT, it was expedient. We as engineers hated it, and in many cases there were cheaper and better solutions. We just couldn't use them.

Now back to wolves: Ask I stated earlier, management of wolves requires an extremely heavy hand. This is why we exterminated them in the first place. Leaving other, "easier to manage" predators, to take their place. Wolves are like the hordes that came off the steppes and terrorized Europe and Asia for thousands of years. They come in, clear out an area (leaving a wildlife desert), and move on. And just when an area recovers, here they come again.

Just to keep control of these creatures, you have to stomp on them. Never letting them get so populous that they impact their food supply. Cause if they do, they break up into small groups and move on, in all directions. Then you have a nightmare. From the damage that these wolves have already created, we have too many. We are already teetering on that nightmare line, and they were just reintroduced! OUCH!

217 posted on 02/11/2004 3:47:10 PM PST by D Rider
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To: D Rider
Wolves normally migrate with herd animals such as caribu. This is their nature. They only stop long enough to thin our or wipe out an area. They are probably the most efficient hunter there is to include man.
218 posted on 02/11/2004 4:56:10 PM PST by U S Army EOD (Volunteer for EOD and you will never have to worry about getting wounded.)
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To: D Rider
”Now back to wolves: Ask I stated earlier, management of wolves requires an extremely heavy hand. This is why we exterminated them in the first place. Leaving other, "easier to manage" predators, to take their place. Wolves are like the hordes that came off the steppes and terrorized Europe and Asia for thousands of years. They come in, clear out an area (leaving a wildlife desert), and move on. And just when an area recovers, here they come again.”

You are contradicting yourself from your last post in which you talked about the natural cycle and the bouncing ball effect. I don’t’ agree with what you have said here. Here’s why: wolves cannot clear out an area. It’s not physically possible for them. Once prey levels are reduced, wolves start to kill each other. Healthy elk (or whatever the prey is) are difficult for wolves to kill. They receive injuries -–sometimes fatal injuries and it is usually the alphas that are injured or incapacitated. So what happens is the wolves populations decrease – the herds begin to increase and the cycle repeats.

We have already established that wolves are to be managed and kept “in territory” so your scenario of them just “moving on” is not applicable. And your “stomp on them” – “extremely heavy hand” descriptions of what is required is not something I agree with either.

229 posted on 02/12/2004 10:35:08 PM PST by Sunsong (John Kerry, who rose without a trace, with no accomplishments but his own advancement)
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