Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: justshutupandtakeit
Post your proof that Jeff supported "this extension of democracy oblivious to the cupidity and greed of the people"...

And -- challenge my conclusions on the issues as posted at 61 & 74, if you can..

108 posted on 02/05/2004 8:32:27 AM PST by tpaine (I'm trying to be 'Mr Nice Guy', but the U.S. Constitution defines a conservative. (writer 33 )
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 106 | View Replies ]


To: tpaine
Jefferson is widely touted as the "champion of democracy" vs Hamilton the "monarchist." Jefferson's unwavering support of the French REvolution thoughout its most egregious excesses shows his total support of democracy no matter what the cost. Jefferson's party was the democrat-republican party are you saying these labels are incorrect? I will admit that the term "democrat" is a relative one and the democrat of 1790 is not quite the same as that of 2004. And that those states were federalists were strongest had a larger percentage of citizens eligible to vote than the states were democrats were strongest.

States were not bound by the BoR prior to 1833. States had established religions, restricted the press (particularly in the South), anti-sedition laws and had other violations of the 1st amendment. I think most conclude that the BoR applied to the fedgov until the 14th amendment extended its reach to states.

I agree that Jefferson did support the fedgov but his ideas about the military weakened it immensely.

I also agree that the Civil War was the ultimate battle between Jeffersonianism and Hamiltonism particularly since the latter's goal was to build up a strong industrial base.
This made the conflict between the sections more acute with the passing of the years. While it is true that his financial programs did not apply exclusively to the benefit of the North (Virginia had as much industry as any state at the founding) for various reasons the South did not avail itself of those benefits. That would be an extensive discussion in itself.

Hamilton wanted to see an end to slavery as Jefferson did early on but the latter seemed paralyzed when it came to any action to do so after 1784. His actions as president wrt the Dominican rebellion in supporting the French are inexcuseable imo.

I don't believe Jefferson had a good understanding of the constitution and proof of that was the Ky/Va resolutions which meant essentially that there would be no "law of the Land." These fanned the flames of secession when used by less intelligent people. At one point late in his life J gave some support for the idea until Madison rebuked him for it.

With Jefferson you can never be sure what he really believed since he was very underhanded and sneaky as the anonymous authorship of the resolutions show. He hated open conflict and preferred to work behind the scenes which makes definitive attribution of belief difficult. Hamilton was just the opposite, he could have saved himself great grief by being less open in his espousal of ideas.

I do not believe that J would have supported secession under any circumstances particularly since the South controlled the fedgov for most of its existence before the Civil War. Certainly not through armed rebellion. But those claiming to follow his ideas had less judgment and understanding of realities.
127 posted on 02/05/2004 10:08:47 AM PST by justshutupandtakeit (America's Enemies foreign and domestic agree: Bush must be destroyed.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 108 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson