GWB: HBS MBA (as read on Rush)

The American Thinker ^ | February 3, 2004 | Thomas Lifson

[lambo]

It would be informative to know when you graduated. You're right about professional schools today, but things were different in the 1960s and 1970s, especially at a place like Harvard Business School. It was hard to get in, yes, but it took some real work to stay, too. I had a long and wide-ranging discussion with the former Dean of a certain well known Ivy League law school about this when I was a student there. He told me that lower standards, grade inflation, and blind grading were instituted (in the mid- to late-70s during his deanship) when the school discovered that it was the kind of underprepared students the school had not traditionally taken, but was taking now under political pressure to be more inclusive and less elitist, who were getting the lowest grades and were being asked to leave.

I was surprised at his candor, especially since he had clerked for Felix Frankfurter and had been in charge of the project that resulted in the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. He was a true liberal, but at least an honest one. In today's political climate, he'd probably kill me for repeating this conversation if he were still alive.

The old "look to your left, look to your right, one of you won't be here next year" speech was still given to incoming students there in 1970. I got my J.D. in 1987, on the other hand, and I don't recall anyone from my class of about 580 flunking out. The school did graduate a number of people who couldn't get jobs, however. My brother graduated from HBS in 1993 and tells the same story.

And lest anyone read too much into this tale, I was one of those students who probably wouldn't have been accepted at my law school before the mid-70s. Well, I might have been if I'd done as well as I did in the college I went to, but I probably wouldn't have been able to get in there, either.

[Nick Danger]

I KNOW people. He is wrong.

I don't think you know Butcher Polish from Shinola, and I don't think you should be telling people that you know what goes on at the Harvard Business School.

[StarFan]

Most times, folks don't even know that about the President because you hardle EVER heard it during the 2000 election.

I heard about it during the campaign and it was from a reporter who posted college averages of GWB and Albore and GWB scored higher. Naturally the media didn't broadcast it.

Foxnews just reporting that Lieberman will be pulling out of the race. Surprise surprise.

[lambo]

I see you're taking some flak on here for your statement, so I hope you won't take my previous post the wrong way. Is it possible that you are a more recent graduate than GWB?

[lawgirl]

Are you a lawyer? ;)

[ohioWfan]

I heard part of this on Rush today. VERY interesting.

Of course, we all KNOW that the President is a very intelligent man, but it's nice to see it in black and white....

Thanks, Gretchen!

[ohioWfan]

Are YOU?? ;o)

(Hi there, stranger!)

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[lonestar]

I just loved this article. It is even better if you're a Texan and have watched GWB before he became a candidate for POTUS.

My favorite is how he ran against then popular Governor Ann "Barf" Richards, speaking of being underestimated by his opponent.

[Jean S]

Bump for your ping list.

[Carolinamom]

A very well-spoken caller to Rush's show today was the basis of this article. He said his parents were immigrants, he graduated from Princeton, he worked for the space program, he got a master's degree in electrical engineering, AND he got an MBA at Harvard 2 years before Bush.

The point of his call, however, was that getting into the MBA program was more difficult than any of these other avenues and that the 2 year program was the most difficult he had ever seen. No special attention was given to who you were or who your parent was and it was super competitive..........everyone there was smart.

As part of the program, they studied over 2000 businesses...all of which had 2 sides to a problem w/both sides being right or good. The students had to be able to DEBATE and DEFEND whatever side they took. He was VERY complimentary of Bush's having graduated from such a program.

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[OneTimeLurker]

Not anymore! Worked at a megafirm for 2 years though. Now I do commercial real estate brokerage/finance.

[OneTimeLurker]

Moonhawk; Whatever you say. I am not the least bit interested in justifying my background to you.


Lambo, I went to school quite a while after GW so of course that could account for the difference though as I said, Rush is just sharing his observation based on what "he understands". I share my experience and those of people I know well. The curriculum is clearly challenging (people don't pay $25K++ a year to learn nothing and not be challenged) but the point is people don't fail because the school doesn't let them. For example, if somebody fails a course at my alma-mater (which happens in the whole school maybe once or twice a year), they are permitted to retake the exam again and again until they pass. Also, the curve is set very high so hardly anybody gets below a B (or equivalent).

[JulieRNR21]

Heard Rush discussing this today....thanks for posting.

[moonhawk]

Fine, I don't care about your background.

But your school is apparently NOT the same as Harvard Business...I knew a few who went there, and they're hardly slackers, or stupid.


Also, Rush was NOT "sharing his observations", he was reading an article written by a Harvard Business grad, and a caller then phoned in who was also one, and confirmed what the writer said.

So maybe YOUR school let slackers ride-not that I'm saying you're proof of that-but you have NO evidence to support your contention that Harvard Business School does.

[lawgirl]

When you said the hardest part of it was getting in, I knew you had to be talking about lawyers. There were a TON of lawyers that knew nothing when they graduated that I wouldnt' trust to walk my dog, much less represent my interests.

From what I have seen, the rest of graduate schooling is not like law school. They actually have to work for their degrees, and this is very true with HBS I think.

I am a lawyer too- 3 years out, just moved to Milwaukee (where the graduates from Wisconsin law schools don't have to take the bar) and trying to take the bar and find a job. The market sucks.

[CyberAnt]

"ability to out-psych the opposition"

This is one of his best qualities. And .. the dems still have not figured it out .. LOL!

[Victoria_R]

Your statement is flawed.

Two different organizations have put different numbers on the cost of that program. The OMB is the Administration's, the CBO works for Congress.

Not necessarily. Those Harvard Business cases have different numbers from different sources. Part of dissecting those cases is to understand the assumptions behind the numbers. And to make some determination as to which numbers to use or how much to rely to them or combine them or...

Besides I looked this tidbit up: His Bachelor's degree is in history, one of those squishy subjects that the people who got Bachelor's degrees with lots of calculus, statistics, and other numbers involved kind of looked down on.