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To: Yo-Yo
When two aircraft perform dogfight training, one will break formation and the fight starts with the two aircraft closing on each other (Tally ho!)

Actually Yo, A 'Tally' only means visual contact. A 'fights-on call is what will start the ACM. In a 1v1 fight, head on starts are not always typical. In training, varying-aspect attacks and defenses are practiced. One never knows whether contact will appear in front or behind. There is an enemy doctrine that actually begins with NOE flying under the bogey with a pull up into an rear attack while first shot comes in the vertical before a tally is possible.

My point is that during 1v1 ACM, rarely is their a moment when one or the other pilot is not pulling into, or rolling around the lift vector of the other plane. Doubtful either pilot would lose SA during ACM to the point of running into each other.

51 posted on 02/04/2004 11:29:05 AM PST by Pukin Dog (Sans Reproache)
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To: Pukin Dog
Sir,

Thank you for explaining what "Tally Ho" means. I was afraid that the Navy version was different than the Air Force usage, but fortunately you have alleviated my fears. Could you please enlighten me further on the following term:

Bravo Sierra ;^)

In your scenario, what would be the max closing rate between the two aircraft be? Do you think that closing rate would be enough to knock off a vertical stab? I don't. The Navy keeps up with corrosion control better than that, and I'm sure that Grumman built the F-14 with a bit more strenght into a vertical stab that sees Mach 1.5+ IAS and sustains severe side forces during maneuvers.

Unless the story has it's facts screwed up, which is likely, I cannot imagine how two aircraft flying formation as you describe can sustain damage to a right wingtip and a right vert stab without also taking out the left vert stab or more. I could see that happening if it were a right wing tip and a left vertical stab, but not this right-right as reported. Occam's Razor suggests that it is more likely either the two were head to head during the mishap, or else one aircraft was flying formation inverted. I think the latter will prove to be the case.

May we agree to disagree?

58 posted on 02/05/2004 6:54:50 AM PST by Yo-Yo
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