Posted on 02/01/2004 3:55:15 PM PST by wideminded
Note that the FSB has been attempting to discredit the information and silence the reports, giving them the credence they probably deserve.
-archy-/-
I have no sympathy for the Chechnyan dhukhai scum, but not much either for FSB agents who find it easier to fake bombing incidents with real victims, then frame easy-to-catch *suspects* who can be convinced to confess, leaving the real terrorists to continue their work...so that the budgets for the organs of state security can be increased, greater powers granted, etc, usw.
As was so in the Tsarist days, as remains so today. And as is so in the USA as well.
MOSCOW, Dec. 30 (UPI) -- Copies of a book linking Russia's FSB security service to apartment blasts in 1999 have been seized by the Russian police, the book's sellers say.
Over 4,000 issues of "FSB Blows Up Russia" were confiscated in western Russia on Sunday, Alexander Podrabinek of the Prima news agency told the BBC.
Podrabinek said "the books were seized as anti-government propaganda."
The FSB denies any involvement in the blasts that killed nearly 300 people and led to the second war in Chechnya. Instead, it has blamed Chechen rebels for organizing the September 1999 bombings -- two in Moscow and two in Volgodonsk.
The copies of the book were seized en route from the western city of Pskov to Moscow after being stopped by road police, Podrabinek said.
The book is co-authored by former FSB agent Alexander Litvinenko, who fled to Britain in 2000 and was given political asylum there. Litvinenko has accused his superiors of carrying out the apartment bombings and also of ordering him to kill Russia's exiled tycoon Boris Berezovsky.
Only if ignore fact that Chechins kidnap 1,500 peoples in 3 years of semi independence, to include general leading diplomatic mission to stave off war (he was killed), then Baseyov (Minister of Defense for Mashkedov) invade Daghistan and masscre several village (all filmed by own hand and own men)....other then that small set facts...this is no different then US blowing up Pentagon and Jews blowing up World Trade towers.
This story does not seem to me to fall in the tinfoil category. One difference between this story and the crazy conspiracy theories swirling around the WTC attack is that Satter, who is a professor at Johns Hopkins, and a lot of other seemingly sensible people believe that the story is at least plausible.
The following facts are undisputed:
1. A large bomb was found in an apartment building in Ryazan.
2. The construction of the bomb matched in various respects with the bombs that destroyed other apartment blocks in the same period.
3. The perpetrators who were caught had ties to the FSB.
4. The government said that the bomb was merely a test of vigilance, which is not a highly plausible explanation.
5. No proper investigation has been conducted.
There is no question that the Chechens have committed many terrorist acts. That would not excuse the killing of innocent Russian citizens by their own government. If there was no basis to the idea that the FSB was involved in the apartment bombings, the Putin government would have no objection to an open investigation (aside from the fact that this is not a Russian tradition).
Accually second chehn war started as answer to chechn attack on Dagestan.
Satter suggested in his talk on C-SPAN2 and in the article that the Dagestan attack was somehow also arranged by the FSB as part of a general plan. He goes over why it would have been difficult for the Chechens to respond so quickly to the Russian counter-attack.
Another thing Satter discussed on C-SPAN is that from an American point of view it is almost beyond the realm of belief that a government would do such a thing to its own citizens to achieve political aims. But apparently the trend of Russian history does not rule such things out.
My own view is that it is possible that the Chechens organized the whole thing but there is certainly more than enough evidence of FSB involvement to justify further investigation.
The main difference is that libelous conspiracy theories are to believed if they apply to Russians or Serbs. It must be in human nature that we need some designated guys in black hats.
Some people have a persecution complex. Conspiracy theories should only be believed if there is well-founded evidence to support them. So far no one has come up with any plausible evidence that all Jewish workers in the WTC were told to take the day off, or that explosives were pre-placed to destroy the WTC or that 1/5 of the Pentagon was destroyed by a bomb placed by the US government rather than a plane controlled by terrorists. In contrast even the Russian government does not dispute that the Ryazan bomb was placed by people connected to the FSB. Why don't you address the particular facts of this case instead of writing it off as anti-Russian propaganda? BTW, my brother-in-law is married to a Russian and as far as I can tell the members of the Russian community are some of the finest citizens in my town.
1. "Russian government does not dispute"
2. "Ryazan bomb" in another city but similar
3. possibly "placed by people connected to the FSB"
4. all described in the book of honest BAB.
Hey, so many steps to connect. You know, in six steps you can connect everyone with everyone. Mother Theresa with Bin Laden probably in less. And Serbs are guilty of greatest genocide in history.
Prof. Satter is not Boris Beresovsky and his book is not based on this previously book.
Hey, so many steps to connect. You know, in six steps you can connect everyone with everyone.
Your hand-waving "steps" argument indicates that you can't really explain the facts in this case in a way that would support your case. All you have to do to make a winning argument is to fill in the blanks in this sentence: "It is entirely plausible and reasonable that the Russian government would place a huge bomb in the basement of an apartment as an 'exercise in vigilance' because _______ and this bomb was not really dangerous to the occupants of the apartment because ___________."
And Serbs are guilty of greatest genocide in history.
Not in history, but Srebrenica is not merely a conspiracy theory. BTW the topic of this thread has nothing to do with Serbs.
Some people are not worth arguing or even conversing with on FR because they are not interested in determining the truth.
Even in America we have learned not to completely trust the word of the government. They're probably telling some lies about Mad Cow testing. There seems to be some hesitancy to release all the information on events leading to September 11th. But if the Ryazan incident had happened in the US, there would eventually be intensive investigations and at least one complete detailed report covering such elementary points as the intended purpose of the test, why the particular building and city were chosen, who was involved in planning for it, and what was learned from it.
But apparently the trend of Russian history does not rule such things out.
What trend of RUSSIAN history? If you mean atrocities of communists? Then it was SOVIET power not russian. For you maybe it is same for me - not.
About 15 years ago I read a book that was actually written by Richard Nixon, although I suspect he had some help with research. He made the argument that the differences in the characteristics of Russian and American (and other Western) governments are related to trends that go back very far in history. He pointed out that while Russia was dealing with Ivan the Terrible who roasted his enemies in big frying pans and "massacred 60,000 citizens of Novgorod" (link), in western countries there was never anything that harsh. Instead there was the gradual development of human rights and the rule of law. Even among Western governments one can see that those countries that have had a harsh, authoritarian, or corrupt past have a great deal of difficulty overcoming this. It's too much to expect that the excesses of the Soviet period have left no trace only a few years after the last communist government.
Litvinenko's first book The Lubianka Criminal Group left me staggered. It is not easy to believe the book's revelations of the corruption on every level of the Russian presidential administration (for instance, Putin's assistant Yastrzhembski participating in drugs trafficking from Afghanistan) and all the law enforcing authorities (FSB and Militia chiefs collabourating with the gangs). But then one thinks, what the h*ll, they're just commies swapping their ideological power for dollars...
As to the war in Chechnya, Litvinenko is sympathetic to the Chechens. He directly accuses Putin and his circle in war profiteering, and quite convincingly too.
On the other hand, he was very close to Berezovski ever since refusing to murder him on FSB orders. Now Litvinenko is one of Berezovski's bodyguard in London, so could he just being useful to his employer?
I am really not sure what to think.
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