The Corruption of Conservatism (July 10, 2003)

Colorado Freedom Report ^ | July 10, 2003 | Ron Paul

[B4Ranch]

October 17, 2003
I quit looking at that stuff long ago. If the Bureau did a lousy job, what's new about that?

Thanks for the link.

[185JHP]

One reason 'tarians are (very appropriately) despised and scorned is the "limits" they desire are limits on the government dealing with the likes of Kozlowski and Stewart. #2, 6, 8, 10, 13, 15, and 17 are nuggets the fatuous can't properly assay with their faulty equipment.

[cyncooper]

You are correct. When I said they did not leave the U.S. I was referring to the debunked charge that they were allowed to do so when all other air traffic was not permitted.

[wizardoz]

I said, " Just a thought among many." Sorry, but I'm not up to wasting my morning talking to a porcupine.  The last word is yours.

Well, I'll take you up on that, then. Cruse, you've been around FR for a long time and you've said many things that have impressed me. But right now I feel like you just under-estimate the nature of our enemies. That's my opinion. You have yours, we'll each vote our conscience, and what happens, happens. I'm sure we both hope for the best.

[wizardoz]

I said, " Just a thought among many." Sorry, but I'm not up to wasting my morning talking to a porcupine.  The last word is yours.

Well, I'll take you up on that, then. Cruse, you've been around FR for a long time and you've said many things that have impressed me. But right now I feel like you just under-estimate the nature of our enemies. That's my opinion. You have yours, we'll each vote our conscience, and what happens, happens. I'm sure we both hope for the best.

[Terpfen]

"Yawn. Isn't there some football game I can watch later today?"

I'll let you know if they ever end the effing pre-game ceremonies.

[steve50]

Hard to find people that don't exist.

Tell Kristol and the other self proclaimed neocon writers they don't exist. This denial is insane.

[Terpfen]

"Tell Kristol and the other self proclaimed neocon writers they don't exist. This denial is insane."

Which other self-proclaimed Neocons are we talking about here? The same ones the New York Times editorial page likes to parade about to rally the troops--Wolfowitz, Perle, Cheney? What about the staff of the Weekly Standard? Maybe Rush Limbaugh too, he was always talking about the need to get rid of Hussein. Oh, and Ann Coulter! Charles Krauthammer! Tony Snow! Matt Drudge! The list goes on--of strawmen, that is.

I have yet to meet two people who have the same definition of a neoconservative. My liberal Global Studies professor defines them as oil hunters. This guy in Congress defines them as domestic liberals and foreign aggressors. Anti-Semites define them as Jewish conservatives. No one has their stories straight on even the basic definition of Neoconservatism, let alone what these Neocons seek.

Excuse me while I yawn.

[Tricorn]

"The conservatives have failed..."

You got that right, brother! We've had the reigns of power for 3 years -- 3 YEARS!! -- after a 50-yr Democratic stranglehold over ALL our institutions and we haven't completely reordered society yet??!!

I'm outta here, jack. (/sarcasm)

[mrustow]

I agree with what Dr. No says, with two large exceptions:

1. War on Iraq was justifiable, with or without neo-con pseudo-intellectual baggage. The first war with Iraq had never ended, because: A. Saddam had continuously violated the cease-fire agreement; B. We had to plant out foot in the Mideast; and C. Put the fear of Allah into the locals, particularly our true worst enemies, the Saudis.

2. Paul fails to distinguish between the requirements of foreign and of domestic policy. He would impose the same rule on both foreign and domestic policy. A government that refuses to deceive its foreign enemies, will not long endure.

The question Ledeen doesn't answer is: "Why do the political leaders not suffer from the same shortcomings and where do they obtain their monopoly on wisdom?"

Once this trust is placed in the hands of a powerful leader, this neocon argues that certain tools are permissible to use. For instance: "lying is central to the survival of nations and to the success of great enterprises, because if our enemies can count on the reliability of everything you say, your vulnerability is enormously increased." What about the effects of lying on one's own people? Who cares if a leader can fool the enemy? Does calling it "strategic deception" make lying morally justifiable? Ledeen and Machiavelli argue that it does, as long as the survivability of the state is at stake. Preserving the state is their goal, even if the personal liberty of all individuals has to be suspended or canceled.

[KDD]

War on Iraq was justifiable, with or without neo-con pseudo-intellectual baggage. The first war with Iraq had never ended, because: A. Saddam had continuously violated the cease-fire agreement; B. We had to plant out foot in the Mideast; and C. Put the fear of Allah into the locals, particularly our true worst enemies, the Saudis.

Yes we may have discussed this at the time you corrected me on the legality of this war...and I agree with the above.

It's one of the ironies. This President has the best Middle East policy this country has ever had. I don't see anything about that policy that I would label neo-con.

At the same time, I see nothing in his domestic policy that I would call conservative either.

Anyway...I think I will mute my criticism of government henceforth and go fishing with Laz until I am sure my postings do not violate new posting guidlines that were set recently. I don't personalize politics to the point that I can't see that, no matter who is head of it, government is "the common enemy of all well-disposed, industrious and decent men"

Be well.