Creative Class War - How the GOP's anti-elitism could ruin America's economy.

Washington Monthly ^ | Feb 2004 | Richard Florida

[lentulusgracchus]

Introduce school vouchers on a national scale. We have elements of this system already at the collegiate level where America education is the best in the world. Why not learn from our successes?

Good point. Japanese businessmen assigned to long-term posts in the U.S. typically send their children to private, preferably Japanese-language schools (now being founded in some places to fill the need, with curricula cloned from Japanese schools). But Japanese collegians from the Home Islands don't hesitate to enroll in our universities.

[lentulusgracchus]

I've seen Florida attacked articulately and effectively in print. A lot of his talking points are said to have weak statistical support. He is something of an impresario, like John Maynard Keynes and Robert Ardrey, and his ideas should be handled with kid gloves. Better still, wait for the adults in the room to speak up about his facts and his use of them. There are people out there who know enough to refute him; but he is apparently trying to run away with the public (or at least the elite) imagination, before others can speak up.

[raloxk]

One thing he completly ignores is how the strong US dollar from 1997-2002 helped drive many film and tv prodctions to places like NZ. At one point $1US=$2.50NZ. With nominal dollar costs actualyl lower than in the US, real dollar savings were substantial sometime well over 50%.

[independentmind]

There are people out there who know enough to refute him; but he is apparently trying to run away with the public (or at least the elite) imagination, before others can speak up.

There was an article posted on FR not too long ago that did exactly that.

[AnalogReigns]

I live in the Northern Virginia suburbs of DC. Our economy and growth has always been more than (very liberal) Maryland even though they have a major university in their suburbs. The high tech Dulles/Reston corridor is said to have more IT professionals than California's Silicon valley. Of course we were hit bad by the IT bubble's bust in '99 but things are recovering. We're still growing a lot faster than suburban Maryland.

Virginia is a "red state" too. Very conservative. With some of the toughest capital punishment laws in the nation. Yet a very creative growing place. I think Florida's theories are just plain bogus.

[looscnnn]

"top 50% should have everything paid including living expenses"

That would certainly give students incentive to get great grades, so that they will be in the top 50%. Problem is what would the cost to taxpayers be?

Who was the guy running for election (for governer?) that said that his budget could get all students into college for free?

[dixie sass]

Then you are a very close minded person RLK. He has not made a single statement that hasn't been said before, either here, on FOX or anywhere for that matter.

Perhaps you don't realize that your medical records are not being kept by Americans in American city sitting at American desks, but more than likely in India. The same thing with your banking records...

[optimistically_conservative]

We need vouchers for the college studies!

Government subsidies have driven up demand, tuition and other cost, grade inflation and academic depreciation.

You want more? Perhaps you could provide your views on Britain's and Germany's reform concerning subsidized education?

Otherwise only fools will study engineering.

We already have too many fools studying engineering and too many foolish engineering programs. As programmers, sysadmins and IT/Web designers get moved down into the trade salary wages - we will be able to prune the fools and foolish out of our engineering schools.

[Paul Ross]

"...He does seem to try and remain neutral, whether he succeeds at it or not. Nevertheless, I'd like to hear any comments you have."

Where is the BARF ALERT?! This guy is not backing his arguments up with 'Real data'...but continuing to make the unsupported and tired old assertions that liberals ALWAYS make because of their narcissistic dementia, accurately pin-pointed in Ann Coulter's book, 'Slander', i.e.,:

"Less noted is the degree to which these lines demarcate a growing economic divide, with "blue" patches representing the talent-laden, immigrant-rich creative centers that have largely propelled economic growth, and the "red" parts representing the economically lagging hinterlands."

In point of fact, the GOP vote is drastically higher in college education...and in middle-class economic pedigree...than the RATS. The RATs vote is lower-class, and the super-rich. Many of the super-rich, have no degrees whatsoever...such as Barbara Streisand, etc. And just because the rural areas are GOP, does not necessarily mean that they are either backwards or 'lagging'. Frankly, from my perspective, the whole country is economically lagging, and this clown misses that fact while trying to spin the facts of that general issue. I don't regard the LOTR of symptomatic of a general economic malaise. The reduction of foreign students and technology workers is explained by one thing...the rise of the foreign technical universities that can compete...at a fraction of the price of ours, combined with the outsourcing of manufacturing and services which this guy fails to appreciate is due to one thing...and one thing alone. And it isn't creativity. It's vastly lower wages. We need a comprehensive national strategy to counter this, or the U.S. will be destroyed economically.

[RussianConservative]

India/China cover cost of education of students of engineering.

[fightu4it]

" In the industry most symbolic of America's international economic and cultural might, film,......."

The hell you say?

[optimistically_conservative]

The meme that most of Florida's work is based on is to be "content creative" you must be liberal, and even better, gay or live in a high "gay index" area. In addition, the urban lifestyle fosters creative thought whereas the rural, especially family, lifestyle does not.

Drugs, booze, all night parties, and free/cheap sex are signs of the tolerant locales that act as talant magnets.

The more interesting dynamic is they are youth magnets, divorcee magnets, homosexual magnets and dink magnets.

Families and retirees have left because of the high crime rates, poor schools and high property/tax costs. These places are hardly culture centers unless you consider the frat house a cultural icon.

Fastow was considered a financial creative genius. Just goes to show how Florida often confuses creativeness with fads and pornography.

[optimistically_conservative]

Georgia is a good example. Atlanta is one of his blue dot content creative centers, while existing in a red state. Florida's downfall is that the youth are increasingly conservative and creative, turning Atlanta less blue and the surrounding areas more red.

[Lancey Howard]

Nevertheless, I'd like to hear any comments you have

I actually struggled through the entire piece and I think this guy Richard Florida is nothing more than your typical mealy-mouthed, head-up-his-rear, liberal mouse. Florida describes "city-regions" as ...."blue" patches representing the talent-laden, immigrant-rich creative centers that have largely propelled economic growth...., when in fact America's cities are nothing more than filthy, trash-blowing-down-the-street, parasite centers where society's losers get in line for government handouts. It's like this guy doesn't even know who makes up the Democrat base.

[Andrewksu]

Exactly, easiest way to accomplish that...no tenure. Tenure is why our universities have a bunch of black turtleneck, liberal weenies that spew political rhetoric and do a piss poor job of high level instruction. We expect life's losers to teach the young to be winners, not smart. There are very few talented, inspirational, and motivating professors, and were the do exist, they are shunned for breaking from the pack.

We need to get industry professionals to teach, ones with real world experience, knowhow and accomplishments. It is similar to career politicians, career educators have, for the most part, less to offer in science, technology, business, and other areas. I recently graduated and most of what I learned, I taught myself.

[silversky]

Less pleasant people such as myself call it what it is --derelection of duty.
...That's what CLinton did.

They both do it my friend. Each in his own area of incompetence. It's a well oiled machine. Unstoppable, in fact. Oh, and don't forget, Saudi is still there, cutting body parts, and so is Pakistan. The religion of peace is just as peaceful as before. In short, don't be delusional.

This silly article deliberately confuses the real issue: the fact that a service based economy cannot stand. Doing each others enemas and processing BS-biomass, is not an economy. It's running on batteries. There is not much left to drive the economy. In fact, there is nothing left. Any movement is due to past inertia and nothing else. After Bush is done with the economy, Hillary will come to save the day. She will blame our anti-UN military for the downfall and will "fix" it. Welcome to the One World Government. Until then, let's keep calling each other names, and fight over who is the better man in office. To do otherwise would really disappoint the producers of this cute show.

[Happy2BMe]

BUMPING FOR REFERENCE

[raloxk]

"This silly article deliberately confuses the real issue: the fact that a service based economy cannot stand"

I have to say I dont really agree with this statement. It sounds very similar to William Jennings Bryan saying that the economy couldnt stand unless it was Ag based back in 1900.

I will tell you right now what is going to happen with manufacturing not only in the USA but everywhere including eventually China: Manufacturing output will continue to increase (even in the USA and even will hold its own as a % of GDP) but the percent of the work force employed in manufacturing will fall dramatically as it did in Ag.

American Farmers produce more today than ever before, but they do it with 1/10 the number of people as in 1920. Same will happen with manufacturing. Output will even rise but manufacturing employment will fall from about 14-15m today to about 1-4m probably within 30 years. I also suspect manufacturing employment will peak in China within 10 years and then begin falling as it already has in Japan, Taiwan and South Korea.

Every developed country today employes fewer people in manufacturing than it did in the past. In the US the peak was 1978, Australia 1983. Even W. German peaked way back in the 1960s. Only Canada has experience no fall in manufacturing employment, though there has been no long term growth either (this is likey explained by Canada's horrible productivty growth less than 1/2 that of the US's since 1980 thus Canada is very dependent on a weak Canadian dollar to remain competitive)

Output per worker is growing faster in manufacturing than comsumption per person is. Productivity growth in manufacturing in the US over the past few years has been as high as 10% annually.


There will still be manufacturing just as there is still farming, It will be heavily capital intensive and will require no more than 5m workers at most to produce what 15m can do today. No policy can stop this historically inevitable occurance.

[silversky]

Output per worker is growing faster in manufacturing than comsumption per person is.

No contest here. The age long solution to this is... product export. Certainly not trade deficit. Instead, the globalists export the factory in order to artificially slow down the growth of productivity per person. The short term cost reductions are small and only an excuse. The real aims are political - maintaining large, poor and gullible global worker class. This should tell you something about the future.

[oceanview]

well sure, its unfortunate for the nation. but I was just commenting from a political perspective.

let's get real on this, the Dems are going to use this as a political issue, but they aren't going to do anything about it if elected. they care even less. they don't have a majority voter demographic amongst private sector middle class workers, so its not important to them.