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France: Friend or Foe? Calm returns, but some say it is just a lull
MSNBC, ^ | January 29, 2004 | Michael Moran

Posted on 01/29/2004 8:28:48 PM PST by quidnunc

Paris — On the July day American troops killed Saddam Hussein’s sons Qusai and Odai in the northern Iraqi city in Mosul, a senior NBC News producer called his usual intelligence and military sources trying to learn more about the raid.

As his best CIA source gushed about the American victory, the producer says he noticed a news bulletin on the television behind him: the Eiffel Tower, that great symbol of French grandeur and artistic prowess, had caught fire.

“So I asked him, ‘Hey, do you guys know the Eiffel Tower’s on fire’?” the producer said.

“He was silent for a moment, then he said: “Could this day get any better?”

A joke, or not?

The fire turned out to be minor and not related to terrorism, and the producer involved feels to this day the CIA man had been joking. Joke or not, it speaks volumes about the chasm that has opened between the U.S. and its oldest European ally — a nation whose intervention on the side of the American colonists saved them from defeat in the American Revolution, and whose intelligence networks in the Middle East continue to play a vital role to this day in the Bush administration’s “war on terror.”

Nearly a year has passed since France and America faced-off in the U.N. Security Council. Paris spoke for nations who felt American evidence of Saddam’s WMD programs was insufficient sufficient to justify war. Washington insisted Saddam posed “a grave threat to peace,” in President Bush’s words.

In the end, the impasse caused the U.S. to abandon efforts to win U.N. blessing for the war, bring France and America to such a low ebb that Thomas Friedman, the Pulitzer Prize winning columnist of The New York Times, could write this with a straight face: “It’s time we Americans came to terms with something: France is not just our annoying ally. It is not just our jealous rival. France is becoming our enemy.”

-snip-

(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: foe; nonallyfrance
Quote:

“What France and the U.K. can wield even together with other European partners is insignificant relative to the U.S.,” says Dr Stephen Blackwell, a European security expert at Britain’s Royal United Services Institute. “It is a nonsense to talk of a counter-balance to American power. What Europe should do — and what it is doing, I believe — is building a force that can augment American power and bring specialties to bear like intelligence and special forces.”

A French naval crewman who served on the aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle in 2002 was even more frank on the topic.

“The Charles de Gaulle is the most powerful ship in Europe, and it was like a bathtub toy when we sailed with the American fleet,” he says. “No one has any illusions of matching America in such things. But I think the French — the Europeans — want you to stop treating us like we owe you something. It is time to let us move out of the house.”

This must really gall the Frogs, what with their pretensions of global power and all.

1 posted on 01/29/2004 8:28:49 PM PST by quidnunc
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To: quidnunc
What is "France"?
2 posted on 01/29/2004 8:30:58 PM PST by pogo101
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To: quidnunc
Foe.

Forever, as far as I'm concerned.
3 posted on 01/29/2004 8:34:28 PM PST by JoJo Gunn (Help control the Leftist population - have them spayed or neutered. ©)
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To: pogo101
What is "France"?

A third rate country infested with cheese eating, surrender monkeys.

Next question?

LVM

4 posted on 01/29/2004 8:35:53 PM PST by LasVegasMac (My SUV can kick your SUV's butt.........)
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To: quidnunc


5 posted on 01/29/2004 8:36:50 PM PST by Diogenesis (If you mess with one of us, you mess with all of us)
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To: quidnunc
Nearly a year has passed since France and America faced-off in the U.N. Security Council.

Is anything better, between us? :)<<me

6 posted on 01/29/2004 8:37:16 PM PST by stopsign ("What great fortune for government. That people don't think"...Der Fuher... [hummmm...])
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To: quidnunc
The French have been destabilizing the Earth since they developed a giant inferiority complex in 1812.

A more divisive people the world has never seen.
7 posted on 01/29/2004 8:39:45 PM PST by witnesstothefall
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To: quidnunc
(F)

the French.
8 posted on 01/29/2004 8:39:51 PM PST by Luke Skyfreeper (For your post: Michael <a href="http://www.michaelmoore.com">miserable failure</a> Moore)
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To: quidnunc
what with their pretensions of global power and all.

Let alone their pretension to speak for Europe, which even the "naval crewman" tripped on.

9 posted on 01/29/2004 8:41:49 PM PST by Shermy
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To: quidnunc
For many senior officials, American interests cannot be defined by an international consensus.

“It’s like Gulliver’s Travels,” says a senior defense official. “You can be overwhelmingly powerful and even smarter than all the rest. But if you fall asleep or let your national interests be put to a vote among people who don’t share the same values, you’ll find yourself tied hand and foot.”

10 posted on 01/29/2004 8:46:44 PM PST by BunnySlippers (a href="http://www.michaelmoore.com" target="_blank">miserable failure)
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To: quidnunc
“The Charles de Gaulle is the most powerful ship in Europe, and it was like a bathtub toy when we sailed with the American fleet,”


French "Charles de Gaulle" bathtub toy.

11 posted on 01/29/2004 8:48:53 PM PST by BunnySlippers (a href="http://www.michaelmoore.com" target="_blank">miserable failure)
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To: quidnunc
At the risk of offending the thread, I think we should keep giving them the chance to cooperate with us, at least make the gesture. Basically, we don't need them for much of anything anymore, and that's what makes them so mad. The big dog can show nice, the piss-ants will whine. When we try to get along with them and they refuse to meet us half way, we look good and they look bad... er, worse.
12 posted on 01/29/2004 8:51:40 PM PST by Starve The Beast (I used to be disgusted, but now I try to be amused)
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To: quidnunc
They try to ignore the Muslim invasion by dwelling on the US.
13 posted on 01/29/2004 8:54:21 PM PST by CaptainK
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To: quidnunc
What lull??? just yesterday I heard ChIraq warn Taiwan and took the side of Red China, knowing the USA is backing Taiwan. Leave it to them to take an Anti-USA position.
14 posted on 01/29/2004 8:55:53 PM PST by fish hawk
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To: quidnunc
The fire turned out to be minor and not related to terrorism, and the producer involved feels to this day the CIA man had been joking.

Why does the author of this piece assume the CIA guy thought the fire was of terrorist origin? He was probably laughing because he figured (correctly, as it turned out) that it was just an accident (or maybe a sign from God), not because he wants to see terrorists attack France.

15 posted on 01/29/2004 9:05:37 PM PST by xm177e2 (Stalinists, Maoists, Ba'athists, Pacifists: Why are they always on the same side?)
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To: quidnunc
France: Friend or Foe?

Foe. My tagline says it all.

16 posted on 01/29/2004 9:12:32 PM PST by LibKill (My sigil: Two crossed, dead, Frenchmen emblazoned on a mound of dead Frenchmen.)
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To: quidnunc
“What France and the U.K. can wield even together with other European partners is insignificant relative to the U.S.,” says Dr Stephen Blackwell, a European security expert at Britain’s Royal United Services Institute. “It is a nonsense to talk of a counter-balance to American power. What Europe should do – and what it is doing, I believe – is building a force that can augment American power and bring specialties to bear like intelligence and special forces.”

The British believe the 60,000-strong “rapid reaction force” will augment American power, but have no doubt, the French see it a counter-balance. It will be interesting to see which country is in charge when it becomes a reality.

“The Charles de Gaulle is the most powerful ship in Europe, and it was like a bathtub toy when we sailed with the American fleet,” he says. “No one has any illusions of matching America in such things. But I think the French – the Europeans – want you to stop treating us like we owe you something. It is time to let us move out of the house.”

Let me be the first to bid France adieu. If you ever need America’s help, just let us know, we’ll be happy to send a few “inspectors” to your aid for 12 years or even longer as need be.

17 posted on 01/29/2004 9:18:21 PM PST by RJL
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