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To: Scenic Sounds
The Tenth Amendment is usually used to support an argument in favor of states' rights.

I suppose that might be statistically and historically accurate but the 10th covers a little more than that. I believe it says "are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

And his opinion was joined in by, among others, Justices Scalia and Thomas.

That's weighty, no doubt about it. I don't know the case and don't know how much weight was carried by the 1st but in reading it it seems like quite a stretch to include "freedom of association." It speaks to the right of assembly and petition for the purpose of redress of grievances. It seems to me that selfish people both left and right have distorted the original intent of the BoR's to cover a multitude of things not meant by it.

That's a shame because I think a narrow interpretation of the Constitution would be sufficient to secure all righteous liberties if applied correctly and honestly. For example; what need was there, in the literal sense, for the 14th Amendment in order to free slaves? An honest reading of the Constitution before the existence of the 14th should have settled the matter. Men are men and all men are free men.

Like Roe v Wade resting on a 'right to privacy' southerners wanted to invent an exception to basic human rights into State's rights. The sovereignty of the individual should reign supreme in both cases. Slavery is deprivation of liberty, abortion is deprivation of life. Every argument laid against those rights are nothing but sophistic lies.

208 posted on 01/30/2004 7:56:35 PM PST by TigersEye (Regime change in the courts. Impeach activist judges!)
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To: TigersEye; yall
"-- what need was there, in the literal sense, for the 14th Amendment in order to free slaves?"

_____________________________________


The 14th was written, in part, to insure the individual rights of exslaves from state infringments..


THE JURISPRUDENCE OF THE SECOND AND FOURTEENTH AMENDMENTS
Address:http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1068014/posts

Read the ratification debates from 1868 for a real education on individual rights as seen by congressmen of the day.
214 posted on 01/30/2004 8:17:26 PM PST by tpaine (I'm trying to be 'Mr Nice Guy', but the U.S. Constitution defines a conservative. (writer 33 )
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To: TigersEye
It seems to me that selfish people both left and right have distorted the original intent of the BoR's to cover a multitude of things not meant by it.

Well, I don't think that Rehnquist, Scalia and Thomas thought of themselves as distorting the original intent of the Bill of Rights. It's just that, after the Bill of Rights was adopted, we amended the Constitution with the Fourteenth Amendment, an amendment specifically designed to limit the power of states vis-a-vis individuals.

That's a shame because I think a narrow interpretation of the Constitution would be sufficient to secure all righteous liberties if applied correctly and honestly. For example; what need was there, in the literal sense, for the 14th Amendment in order to free slaves? An honest reading of the Constitution before the existence of the 14th should have settled the matter. Men are men and all men are free men.

Well, the problem is that when the Constitution was drafted, slavery was recognized to be a legitimate institution. Slaves were counted for purposes of allocating the number of representatives each state should have, but slaves could only be counted as "three fifths" of a whole person. "Indians not taxed" could not be counted at all. "Men are men and all men are free men" was, to say the least, not a principle that had yet received universal acceptance amongst our Founding Fathers. And it was actually the Thirteenth Amendment which outlawed slavery and, because of our preceding history and traditions, it was at least felt to be necessary at the time to put an end to the practice.

The long and the short of these decisions is that states have to comply with the First Amendment when dealing with their own citizens. That means that they can't ban speech, they can't shut down the press, they have to permit citizens to assemble, they can't forbid the free exercise of religion and they can't violate the establishment clause. That's the problem that Judge Moore ran into here.

217 posted on 01/30/2004 8:21:56 PM PST by Scenic Sounds (Sí, estamos libres sonreír otra vez - ahora y siempre.)
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