Georgia may shun 'evolution' in schools

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution ^ | 1/29/2004 | MARY MacDONALD

[Nataku X]

I was thinking more of sequences than pseudogene versus expressed gene... should've made that clearer... but your point still stands... however it would seem that you can't "wander" further away from one simple mutation (1 simple transposition, shift, etc.) to expressing that sequence again.

As for blonde hair, perhaps we just haven't bred apes enough to get a blonde ape?

On a note of interest, for many mammals, it has been shown that if you breed the tamest of the tame, you will eventually get an animal with black-and-white fur. This came from an article posted on FR some time ago. Cats, mice, foxes... researchers (or breeders) took wild stock, and bred the tamest of the stock, and continuing doing so for successive generations until they eventually ended up with a tame black-and-white spotted mammal. Wonder how high up in the mammal heirarchy this domesticatic black-and-white fur gene exists?

[Nataku X]

Not necessarily--if the Flood really did deposit all of the world's strata, why not deposit it around a large animal? In fact, fossils are often found *tilted* but perfectly aligned with the (also tilted) strata. For example, whales probably would survive the Flood the longest, and sink on top of the sediments before finally dying. You'd think that layers would build around a whale, but instead, whales are found in only one layer--as with all other mammals. In any case criss-crossing animal fossils are a disaster scenario for evolution.

There's a specific reason why I mentioned animals; someone already gave you a link to polystrate trees.

[Nataku X]

I assume by "combs" you mean a "lawn" (which YEC would predict as opposed to evolution)?

[PatrickHenry]

The Fox Farm Experiment.

[Doctor Stochastic]

Yes, that would be a better description.

[Condorman]

This can be equated to the plagues that struck Europe in the middle ages. Humans didn't evolve to be resistant to the plague, the ones who were susceptible just died off. We are the same now as we were then.

Can you measure the allele frequency of a single individual? Do you understand how that relates to evolution?

[Amelia]

"Finally, a look at Darwin's life can show you how horrible the results are when you put your faith in science. Science is limited and is constantly changing. What we thought were scientific laws less than a century ago are now shown to be wrong. ...we now know that most of Darwin's ideas were very wrong! You simply cannot put your faith in something as flawed as science."

Which version of the Bible is the correct one?

[Amelia]

Like Scientology, pholgiston, vitalism, and that thunder is caused by Thor's hammer, or that thunder is the echoes of the God's kegling (not to mention the canoodling of Mother Earth and Father Sky.)

I have to admit that I do love teaching about the phlogiston theory...but part of that is just that I love saying the word. ;-)

[RightWingNilla]

Bash the Christians.

This again? Puh-lease! Where?!

[Oztrich Boy]

No time at all? I guess you have not seen,or read, the abundance of writings out there refuting evolution

au contraire. But the last that made a good case was Hugh Miller c.1857. But the pre-Darwinian theory he was refuting was the nonsense of Robert Chambers, a speculation not credited today, except by Creationists as their version of "What Evilution is".

And Miller, geologist, Christian and Creationist, fully accepted the geological column and the concept of deep time whic arose from the speculation of James Hutton (not Charles Lyell).

And academic freedom to simply discuss the data relevant to macroevolution and allow the presentation of other alternatives. actually existed 1-200 years ago, amd the decision was made on which alternative made sense, and explained things.

That's how science works. one field impinging on another and answering questions. The concept of formation over deep time explained the geological column, the fossils in the column showed biologiocal change and speciation. Then the similarity between the column in Africa and S America inspired the idea of Continetal Drift (which again depends on deep time). And once CD (or the later modification Plate Tectonics) was part of "flawed science" there was then an understanding of why fossil marsupials are found only in Australia and the Americas and not in the Mountains of Ararat.

But I expect the alleged Dr Jay Wilde may not know that. The scraps of his writing you quote do not impress.

Frankly, if you are using Mr "You simply cannot put your faith in something as flawed as science." to teach your son biology, you are harming him.

[Oztrich Boy]

I have to admit that I do love teaching about the phlogiston theory...but part of that is just that I love saying the word. ;-)

see that's just how the medical practice of blood-letting endured so long. The docs were calling it phlebotomy.

[longshadow]

"Festival of Oft-refuted Wildly Elliptical Arguments" placemarker

[Phaedrus]

Labelling all those who oppose Evolution on the basis that it is abjectly poor science as "Creationist" is intentional, mildly pejorative and a debating tactic lacking substance. It can also be viewed as abusive of Christianity. Clear enough?

[Heartlander]

Replace "evolution" with the term "biological changes over time"?

I would prefer a different term ; )

(Tongue-in-cheek-mode) What would happen if one took this further in regard to neo-darwinian methods such as:
Random mutations
Natural selection
Chance and necessity

'Random' is essentially meaningless, 'natural' is fundamentally mindless, and 'chance' is lucky happenstance. Science must be careful with the 'selection' of a modifier to these words out of 'necessity' as it could cause 'mutations' in transcription and imply purpose;)

Science must only use the now shunned teleology to discover natural causes. Hmmm…
Why doesn’t the ‘word’ evolution just mean “biological changes over time” which now seems to be a dilemma?… If evolution was defined as “any change in the frequency of alleles within a gene pool from one generation to the next” should we thank Mendel or Darwin? I believe the difference to be in the ‘mechanism’ and apologize for using this teleological ‘term’ as it might be offensive as to imply design. Neo-Darwinism is now defined as evolution? It seems Darwin was wrong but naturalism forgives.

Neo-Darwinism vs. teleology? Well I don’t know what naturalism will predict in regard to my post but teleology predicts that I will be called a creationist because I see design and purpose in regard to life. (Somewhat ironic : )

Regards...

[Protect the Bill of Rights]

"The subject matter is there," he said. "The word is not."

The quality of education in Georgia (my home State) is such that Kathy Cox and pals think we are too stupid to understand the implication of that statement.

[Paul C. Jesup]

Our children need to learn to read, speak and write the King's English and mathematics.

They don't do that right now all over the country. This is a movement to change socialist dogma.

I remember a year ago on FR when we talked about a NON-southern state was attacking evolution and people here poured out their support for creationism. But GOD forbid Georgia does it. What hypocrites you are.

[balrog666]

Labelling all those who oppose Evolution on the basis that it is abjectly poor science as "Creationist" is intentional,

Yes, it is, and for obvious reasons.

... mildly pejorative

Offending idiots or the ignorant is allowed.

... and a debating tactic lacking substance.

Buy a clue. Using the available means to demonstrate that the evidence is contradictory to what you believe isn't a tactic.

It can also be viewed as abusive of Christianity. Clear enough?

No, not at all. How is noting any objectively verifiable fact considered to be abusive of beliefs in an ancient mythology? You need to be a little more explicit here.

[Dimensio]

This is a movement to change socialist dogma.

Um, no, this is a movement by superstitious fools to remove a valid scientific theory from the cirriculum. I didn't see any political dogma -- socialist or otherwise -- being mentioned in the article at all.

I remember a year ago on FR when we talked about a NON-southern state was attacking evolution and people here poured out their support for creationism. But GOD forbid Georgia does it. What hypocrites you are.

Uh, you're saying that the people who supported creationism in the discussions a year ago are the same people who oppose it now?

[Doctor Stochastic]

A friend of mine did much work (in the 1940s) on plant fossils of Africa and South America. He was able to show that old fossils consisted of several families; newer fossils consisted of two sets of families, both clearly descended from the old fossils. Each of the two new sets of families was confined to either South America or Africa. He interpreted this as evidence for drift.

[BiffWondercat]

Altering your replication pathway can hardly be considered "losing sensitivity". A bit of conjugation can do wonders. If they can indeed "lose", they also seem able to past than on to their offspring.

Viruses are arising and mutating quite well - even though they are technically "not living".