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From Iraq to Libya, US knew little on weapons
The Christian Science Monitor ^ | 1/27/2004 | Peter Grier

Posted on 01/27/2004 5:37:18 AM PST by JohnGalt

From Iraq to Libya, US knew little on weapons

Doubts that Hussein had WMD raise questions about war's rationale and intelligence reliability.

By Peter Grier | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

WASHINGTON – When it comes to unconventional weapons, Iraq may have been far from the most dangerous country in the world after all. In recent days a string of surprising revelations has scrambled the world's proliferation threat assessments. Iraq's weapons programs were apparently in shambles, for instance, while Libya's were surprisingly advanced. Pakistan's nuclear scientists might have been rogue agents, proffering secrets for cash. And it appears that North Korea may be the most advanced rogue nuclear nation of all, with an advanced capacity to produce fissile material.

The bottom line: In the shadowy world of intelligence, judging capacities to produce biological, chemical, or nuclear weapons is among the most difficult estimating jobs of all.

"These intelligence estimates are not good enough to support a policy of preemptive war," says Joseph Cirincione, of the nonproliferation project at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace in Washington D.C.

It is still possible that traces of weapons of mass destruction will be found in Iraq. The capture of Saddam Hussein might convince cowed scientists that the old regime is never coming back, leading to new tips, documents, or even buried equipment.

But after months of weapons hunting, the US right now is coming up with little. This was underscored over the weekend by forceful comments from the CIA's former chief weapons inspector, David Kay, who characterized Iraq's unconventional weapons programs as being in "disarray" under a leadership that was increasingly out of touch with reality.

Mr. Kay said that almost certainly Iraq had no stockpiles of such weapons, as the administration said it likely did prior to its invasion of the country last year. Iraq did maintain some test capability in regards to chemical weapons, said Kay, and may have been continuing research and development on biological weapons prior to its downfall.

The Hussein regime had made some effort to restart a nuclear program dismantled in the wake of the 1991 Gulf War, but it had made little progress, according to Kay. And he said one dominant feature of all Iraq's unconventional weapons programs was corruption, in the sense that scientists and lower-level officials fooled higher-ups about the real lack of progress, solely to reap money and other benefits.

"The regime was no longer in control. It was like a death spiral," Kay told The New York Times.

Critics of the administration's use of weapons intelligence prior to the Iraq war said Kay's findings should have come as no surprise to anyone. "My reaction? I told you so," says Daryl Kimball, executive director of the Arms Control Association.

IN the run-up to war, the administration clearly took the worst-case scenario for almost all aspects of unconventional weaponry when building its case for invasion, according to Mr. Kimball. It ignored other evidence, including fresh intelligence produced by UN inspectors.

"The [unconventional weapons] programs were essentially in a state of suspension," says Kimball.

It shouldn't be surprising that Iraq's leaders were themselves in the dark about the program, says Kimball. That same dynamic may have been at work in Pakistan, where nuclear scientists apparently sold weapons technology without the central government's knowledge.

Pakistani offiicals indicated over the weekend that several scientists - who they declined to name - had large bank accounts tied to technology sales.

Thus the most dangerous weapons proliferator in Iraq's region might not have been Iraq itself, but an ally of the United States. Libya's uranium enrichment technology, for instance, is very similar to that used by Pakistan. Now that Libya has pledged to give up its unconventional weapons programs, it turns out its equipment was much better than believed, according to international inspectors who have visited the country.

And North Korea may have the most dangerous programs of all. A group of private experts that recently toured North Korea's nuclear sites said last week that they were shown evidence that Pyongyang is at least producing plutonium metal.

Siegfried Hecker, a senior fellow at the Los Alamos National Laboratory, told Congress that he handled a small sample of what was alleged to be plutonium during the trip, and that its color and weight seemed about right.

In addition, the 8,000 spent fuel rods stored in the Yongbyon nuclear facility appear to have been withdrawn, perhaps in preparation for reprocessing for plutonium extraction.

"For all intents and purposes ... those fuel rods are gone," Dr. Hecker told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News
KEYWORDS: espionage; faultyintelligence; feather; intelligence; iraq; libya; soccermoms; tar; wmd
...
1 posted on 01/27/2004 5:37:18 AM PST by JohnGalt
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To: JohnGalt
"These intelligence estimates are not good enough to support a policy of preemptive war," says Joseph Cirincione, of the nonproliferation project at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace in Washington D.C.

However, considering that even the French believed that Saddam had WMDs, the only way we found out that we had problems with our intel ... was to act. Which means we need to develop better intel rather than forego pre-emptive attacks.

2 posted on 01/27/2004 5:40:46 AM PST by dirtboy (Howard Dean - all bike and no path)
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To: JohnGalt
1. Iraq used WMDs on its own people, never accounted for its remaining stockpiles, and refused to cooperate with inspectors. Any sane individual would assume that Iraq had a WMD arsenal. Syria is probably holding the stockpile.

2. For being purportedly weak on intelligence, isn't it amazing how we intercepted shipments to Libya and how Libya has agreed to disband its WMD programs?

3. The North Korea mess is complicated by Clintonian appeasement and Chinese sponsorship of the regime. Taking out Third World dictators is not easy when a superpower is backing them.

4. Where is the barf alert on this hit piece?
3 posted on 01/27/2004 5:46:02 AM PST by Young Rhino (http://www.artofdivorce.com)
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To: dirtboy
So, whose head gets put on a spike for "problems with our intel"?
4 posted on 01/27/2004 5:48:02 AM PST by GraniteStateConservative ("You can dip a pecan in gold, but it's still a pecan"-- Deep Thoughts by JC Watts)
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To: dirtboy
Hey, that's a start.

I'll move myself and my family aside
If we happen to be left half alive
I'll get all my papers and smile at the sky
Though I know that the hypnotized never lie Do ya?

There's nothing in the streets
Looks any different to me
And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
And the parting on the left
Are now parting on the right
And the beards have all grown longer overnight

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again

5 posted on 01/27/2004 5:53:48 AM PST by JohnGalt ("...but both sides know who the real enemy is, and, my friends, it is us.")
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To: GraniteStateConservative
So, whose head gets put on a spike for "problems with our intel"?

Well, didn't the head of the CIA under Clinton -- Deutch - leave the agency under a cloud of suspicion, and wasn't he investigated for taking CIA classified info on laptops to his home after leaving the job -- wasn't their a 'porn' problem with his laptop? Sounds like he was 'on the ball' -- NOT!

6 posted on 01/27/2004 5:55:49 AM PST by WL-law
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To: Young Rhino
Ahh, the faith of a WMDead Ender.
7 posted on 01/27/2004 5:56:37 AM PST by JohnGalt ("...but both sides know who the real enemy is, and, my friends, it is us.")
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To: JohnGalt
Without our going into Iraq and Afghanistan we wouldn't know anyting about what these other countries have.
8 posted on 01/27/2004 6:02:14 AM PST by Loyal Buckeye
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To: GraniteStateConservative
So, whose head gets put on a spike for "problems with our intel"?

Well, you have to look at the phases of any large-scale project:

Planning
Enthusiasm
Blind Optimism
Implementation
Creeping Doubt
Fear
Panic
Search for the Guilty
Punishment of the Innocent
Awards and Praise for the Non-Participants

9 posted on 01/27/2004 6:06:54 AM PST by dirtboy (Howard Dean - all bike and no path)
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To: JohnGalt
"These intelligence estimates are not good enough to support a policy of preemptive war," says Joseph Cirincione, of the nonproliferation project at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace in Washington D.C.

Or, one might conclude that the only legitimate way to verify the truth is with a very aggressive compliance and inspection program. But, the rush to criticize the President may harm the aggressive approach. Saddam Hussein was in violation of UN resolutions. It took "cowboy" President Bush to force inspectors back into Iraq. Our primary objective is to contain WMD.

10 posted on 01/27/2004 6:08:47 AM PST by reed_inthe_wind (I reprogrammed my computer to think existentially, I get the same results only slower)
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To: dirtboy
David Kay says we were right to go to war..Saddam was actively pursuing WMD,the scientists were taking the money and telling him they were farther along.

He says Bush said to search for the truth and if anything,Bush is the victim here... of faulty intelligence.
11 posted on 01/27/2004 6:10:35 AM PST by MEG33 (America will never seek a permission slip to provide for the security of our country)
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To: reed_inthe_wind
This is a conservative web site and thus enforcing UN resolutions carries next to know weight here.
12 posted on 01/27/2004 6:13:16 AM PST by JohnGalt (The Iraq Hawk: An Appeaser to Real Invaders, Caution: Easily Frightened, Not Good With Money)
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To: WL-law
When was the last time you heard Bush condemn John Deutch, if ever? The point, though, is that if Bush doesn't blame someone, the old nature abhors a vacuum thing will point the blame at Bush.
13 posted on 01/27/2004 6:29:57 AM PST by GraniteStateConservative ("You can dip a pecan in gold, but it's still a pecan"-- Deep Thoughts by JC Watts)
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To: MEG33
Only kooks blame Bush. To blame Bush is to invest in conspiracies, and those folks aren't Bush voters anyway.
14 posted on 01/27/2004 6:31:20 AM PST by GraniteStateConservative ("You can dip a pecan in gold, but it's still a pecan"-- Deep Thoughts by JC Watts)
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To: reed_inthe_wind
Don't worry about John Galt. He is one of the most consistent liberal yankees on FR.
15 posted on 01/27/2004 6:43:42 AM PST by ohioman
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To: ohioman
Don't worry about John Galt. He is one of the most consistent liberal yankees on FR."

Yep. so many tangents; so little time.

16 posted on 01/27/2004 6:50:27 AM PST by reed_inthe_wind (I reprogrammed my computer to think existentially, I get the same results only slower)
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To: JohnGalt
North Korea may have the most dangerous programs of all.

There is a solution to that problem.


17 posted on 01/27/2004 6:57:46 AM PST by ASA Vet (Darn, I forgot a tag line again.)
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To: reed_inthe_wind; ohioman
Hail the UN!

LOL, lefties.
18 posted on 01/27/2004 7:14:14 AM PST by JohnGalt ("...but both sides know who the real enemy is, and, my friends, it is us.")
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To: GraniteStateConservative
two heads are better then one jimmy the peanut farmer carter and stanfield turner{sp}
19 posted on 01/27/2004 10:52:19 AM PST by camas
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