Posted on 01/26/2004 1:47:29 PM PST by Reagan Man
I've explained too much to you already, and you are obviously determined to keep your incorrect opinion of who I am.
For the record, I am a follower of Jesus Christ, a sinner, saved by grace.
I do not like it when people lie about me, and mock me as you have done, and sometimes my human nature responds. (But the 'punch in the nose' in response to someone ELSE was absolutely in jest, and I explained that to you yesterday).
I have apologized on this thread for being dragged down into unpleasantness by cap, and I will NOT be dragged into an ongoing grudge match with you....and I will apologize to you because I obviously hurt your feelings yesterday, and you are still mad.
And other than my concern for your eternal soul and whether or not you are a brother in Christ, I really don't care what you think, because you are completely ignorant of the facts. Your incorrect opinion is irrelevant to the truth, and I don't care to see your name on My Comments page again, thank you.
May the peace of Christ be with you, OWK.
This is supposed to be a discussion forum, ostensibly for people who are relatively like-minded.
Not a hockey rink.
Either one of you has the power to stop this exchange.
Thanks.
Every law can be abused. You might as well be against all laws if your only concern is that someone could *abuse* them.
That wasn't my point to you. What I did was force you to see that wild-eyed claims of the Patriot Act somehow abolishing court ordered warrants were all hyperbole from people who hadn't even read the actual law itself.
Yes, any law, even the harmless Patriot Act, can be *abused*....but No, the Patriot Act doesn't do away with court ordered warrants.
Show me just one unConstitutional sentence or paragraph in the entire legal text of the Patriot Act.
Come on Map, you haven't even read it...
What Southack fails to see is that the Patriot Act abuses the Constitution.
He wanted citations for warrantless searches -- he was provided plenty.
He was shown where the Patriot Act expands authority for warrantless searches from intelligence investigations to include criminal investigations.
Apparently he does not appreciate the distinction
He was shown where the Patriot Act expands warrantless searches to U.S. citizens as well as foreign agents.
He was shown where a Federal court ruled that the Patriot Act provides an unconstitutional end-run around the 4th Amendment.
He was shown where the FISA Court itself ruled against implementation of certain language in the Patriot Act.
He was shown 75 cases where Justice Department interpretation of the USAPA-expanded FISA has resulted in blatant abuse.
Yet he chooses to characterize it as a harmless, useful tool.
The Patriot Act was passed by an overwhelming vote of Congress while the World Trade Center was literally still burning.
The provisions of the Patriot Act were so odious to so many, that the sequel, Patriot Act II was passed by a pusillanimous voice vote to escape individual accountability to the people, and the President signed it in a rare closed Saturday session.
Now, congressmen from both sides of the aisle are supporting the SAFE Act to limit the overreaching authority of these two laws.
Southack places himself in rare company, other than Bush and Ashcroft, there is hardly any bureaucrat or politician who will voice public support for the "Patriot" Acts.
Advocacy groups from the ACLU to the Cato Institute, from one end of the spectrum to the other, condemn the Patriot Acts.
Prone to hyperbole, Southack characterizes our condemnation of USAPA I and II as "wild-eyed."
We shall see.
It ain't "warrantless" if you have to get a warrant from a FISA court, kid...
"How the USA Patriot Act Expanded the Basis for FISA Warrants
Originally, prior to the USA Patriot Act - enacted after September 11 - law enforcement could only seek a FISA warrant if gathering intelligence was the primary purpose of the investigation. But the USA Patriot Act allowed law enforcement to seek a FISA warrant if gathering intelligence was only a significant purpose, not necessarily the primary purpose of the investigation." ...
601 posted on 01/29/2004 11:12:02 PM CST by skip2myloo
He was shown where the Patriot Act expands authority for warrantless searches from intelligence investigations to include criminal investigations.
Apparently he does not appreciate the distinction
He was shown where the Patriot Act expands warrantless searches to U.S. citizens as well as foreign agents.
He was shown where a Federal court ruled that the Patriot Act provides an unconstitutional end-run around the 4th Amendment.
He was shown where the FISA Court itself ruled against implementation of certain language in the Patriot Act." ...
629 posted on 01/30/2004 10:47:40 AM CST by skip2myloo
It will return about 30,700 results.
Do your own research, if you're interested.
You're neither deserving of nor entitled to anymore of my time.
You are incorrigible.
Incapable of factual debate, Southack stoops to ad hominem attacks as a tool to attempt to discredit the intellect, veracity, scholarship and judgment of those who disagree with him.
Rather than shining light on the merit of his beliefs, these tactics expose only his character for all to see and to judge him accordingly.
Irrespective of his own purpose for being here on this forum, we can infer it is neither to learn nor to champion causes which further conservatism in America.
It seems unlikely we can ever induce him to appreciate the basis of fundamental American values and principles.
"The truth is incontrovertible. Panic may resent it; ignorance may deride it; malice may distort it; but there it is." -- Winston Churchill
"There is no nonsense so arrant that it cannot be made the creed of the vast majority by adequate governmental action." -- Bertrand Russell
"Until changed by the authentic act of the whole people, the Constitution is sacredly obligatory upon all." -- George Washington
”The opinion which gives to the judges the right to decide what laws are constitutional and what are not, not only for themselves in their own sphere of action but for the Legislature and Executive also in their spheres, would make the Judiciary a despotic branch." -- Thomas Jefferson
"It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. We hold this prudent jealousy to be the first duty of citizens, and one of the noblest characteristics of the late Revolution. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthen[ed] itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. They saw all the consequences in the principle, and they avoided the consequences by denying the principle." -- James Madison
”Tell the world why you're proud of America… Tell them why Americans, one and all, stand upright and respectful. Not because some state official told them to, but because whatever race, color, class or creed they are, being American means being free. That's why they're proud." -- Tony Blair 7/17/03
”A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear." -- Marcus Tullius Cicero 42 B.C.
NEUTIQUAM ERRO
So you keep claiming...yet you can't show me a single sentence or paragraph of the actual Patriot Act text that is unConstitutional.
Facts are such stubborn things...
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