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To: The Westerner
Let me take this point by point...to begin with I apologize for the "me, me, me." crap. It was uncalled for and very childish.

>>I detect at the root of your argument a problem with sex as such. Why are you angry that a woman can't keep her legs crossed?<<
Women, who actually have no natural instinct to have sex, only to procreate, open themselves to many psychological problems using sex for recreation. Women's minds are wired to take on sex partners to make children and therefore we go for the best of our male counterparts. We expect something back and many times it doesn't happen. Men on the otherhand are wired to have sex with as many females as they can (in order to better the chances of passing on their genes). Women who allow this to happen, even encourage it, end up with STD's and unwanted pregnancies. No birth control is 100% effective and STD's can live on the scrotum which are not covered by a condom.


>>First that implies that there is something wrong with sex. Second that implies that in all cases, an unwanted pregnancy is the result of promiscuity.<<
Nothing is wrong with sex, it's great. But there are many things a couple can do to come to orgasm beside intercourse.
Not every pregnancy is the result of promiscuity but every natural pregnancy is the result of sex. As long as Abortion is used as birth control, why worry?

>>What I'm really trying to understand about pro-lifers like you who are so emotionally invested in another person's life, is why? There must be at least 5 extremely critical to the future of this Republic issues that deserve such emotion and scrutiny. Why do pro-lifers get so vitriolic when they don't know the people? <<
From someone who worked in a Psychiatrist's office and personally knew women who were emotionally devistated by their "Choice", it's because I feel for people. Society has made this all so easy without giving these poor women the full disclosure of what may happen after. I was "pro-choice" until I met a couple women and one man who showed me the aftermath. No man is an island, we need to care about each other. All the facts need to be told to a woman. Let them see the Ultrasound of that "fetus" and see how many woman still make the choice.


>>It's like you imagine the fetus to be a person with a rational, conscious mind aware of its own destruction.<<
The human brain is a wonderful thing, we only use 10% of it. Brain waves can be detected in the unborn at about forty to forty-three days after conception. You, nor anyone else can tell what is going on there.


>>I know the argument is that these are "living" humans, yes, so is a every other species' unborn fetus, eggs, etc.<<
A human zygote will not be anything but a human being. No matter how much a woman tries she will not give birth to anything else. Not a puppy, a chick or a kitten. It is human.

>>Why not the exact same sensitivity over killing nests of wasps?<<
Honestly, isn't that a silly question?

77 posted on 01/23/2004 11:15:40 AM PST by netmilsmom (God sent Angels- Why would I trust them to anyone else?-homeschooling 1/5/04)
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To: netmilsmom; All
"Women, who actually have no natural instinct to have sex, only to procreate..."

I disagree. Women do not have an "instinct" to procreate. Human beings have few instincts, which include sucking, crying, etc.

"As long as Abortion is used as birth control, why worry?"

I don't know any woman who uses abortion rather than birth control. A woman like that would be cavalier, I agree.

"No man is an island, we need to care about each other. All the facts need to be told to a woman. Let them see the Ultrasound of that 'fetus' and see how many woman still make the choice."

I don't agree with the premise that "no man is an island" therefore we are responsible for each other. I do not believe in the ethical argument that I am "my brother's keeper." It's nice of other people to do nice things for me out of kindness, but I don't expect them to, nor do I think they're immoral for not taking care of me.

Facts are readily available to women about abortion. A woman would have to be mentally spaced out not to be aware of the issues on abortion. I don't know any women like that. I believe most doctors will do an ultrasound of the fetus very early in the pregnancy these days. Many women who "choose" abortion will have seen that picture. I don't think it would persuade as many as you think. Each has her own reason for seeking abortion. It's an individual right in a free society, at least until conservatives pass a law against it.

"Brain waves can be detected in the unborn..."

Whether there are brain waves or not, the fetus is not conscious. Human beings are born tabula rasa, as the Ancient Greek philosophers defined the issue. That means we believe at birth the mind is a total blank. Though the potential for brain activity exists in the fetus, consciousness does not. The soul is not there, yet.

"A human zygote will not be anything but a human being."

I agree. But you concede the point by admitting that it "will be" a human being. That's the crucial point. Scientifically, a fetus becomes a human being when it can survive independent of the host, the mother. That is why abortion is not murder. You can kill life, thus my example of killing wasps, but that is different than murder, which applies to human beings.

Now, after making a good faith effort to answer you as best I can, I don't expect to be called a murderer anymore. None of you agree with me. But you have to admit, that as I define it, a fetus is not murdered, a conscious human being is not killed, and a woman is not immoral for aborting a fetus, by my definition, not yours.

I have never called a person who doesn't agree with me on abortion a sinner, a disgusting ghoul, or any other such thing. Someone told me I'd be a killer of my sick parent because of my opinion. That is so off the wall, I can't quite believe it. By what human logic does my belief that the fetus is not yet a human being translate into my being an immoral, unprincipled, callous child to my father?

103 posted on 01/24/2004 8:35:37 PM PST by The Westerner
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