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PRESIDENT BUSH’S SPEECH A CHALLENGE TO CHRISTIANS
Moody News ^ | 21 January AD 2004 | The Revd. Dr. Moody Adams

Posted on 01/21/2004 9:40:52 AM PST by Ryan Bailey

PRESIDENT BUSH’S SPEECH A CHALLENGE TO CHRISTIANS

The theme of President Bush’s State of the Union speech was “defense”: “Our greatest responsibility is the active defense of the American people,” which puts a heavy responsibility on Christians.

He praised the soldiers defending us from terrorism: “The men and women of the American military — they have taken the hardest duty. We have seen their skill and courage in armored charges, and midnight raids, and lonely hours on faithful watch.” They fight to capture or kill the terrorists. But only the soldiers of the Cross can stop Islam from producing more terrorists by converting those who believe they must kill infidels to please God.

Our President praised those defending our youth from drugs through “aggressive education, treatment and law enforcement,” that have reduced young drug users by 400,000 since 2001. But only the gospel of Christ can give youth a reality that is preferable to a drug escape from reality.

President Bush praised Congress for defending the American family by passing the Defense of Marriage Act, signed in 1996 by President Clinton that protects marriage under federal law as the union of a man and a woman. But it is going to take an energized, massive Christian army to help pass a constitutional amendment that will stop the activist judges trying to re-define marriage.

The President called for a $300-million Prisoner Re-entry Initiative to expand job training and placement services to defend the 600,000 Americans leaving prison this year. But,while the government can help by providing jobs, only the power of Jesus Christ can enable them to overcome the temptations crime brings.

Our President declared, “America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our people.”

Those of us who are Christians must never seek a permission slip from the politically correct, the pagans, or the American anti-Christs to defend this nation by proclaiming Jesus Christ, “the way, the truth, and the life.”


TOPICS: Editorial; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: New Jersey
KEYWORDS: bush; christians; moodyadams; sotu; state; unionaddress
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To: thinktwice
Conspiracy to do what? Conspiracy to train? Illegal by whose laws? Our unconstitutional RICO statues only apply to the United States.

Typical reactive neo-con thinking. Anything you don't like should be illegal. You might consider reading a little Bastiat, Toqueville, or Blackstone.
81 posted on 01/22/2004 11:11:58 AM PST by Abe Froman
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To: Abe Froman
"Loyalty to petrified opinions never yet broke a chain or freed a human soul." -- Mark Twain
82 posted on 01/22/2004 11:21:49 AM PST by thinktwice (A culture that muzzles reason and truth will not be well remembered.)
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To: thinktwice
Here is an essay that elaborates a bit more:

.

The Resurrection of Christ: Myth or Reality?
By Matt Perman

Imagine that you have been hiking all day in the mountains of Colorado, and you are lost. An enormous snowstorm is fast approaching, and if you do not find a way out soon, it will cost you your life. Up ahead there is a fork in the road, where you see two people. One is laying down on the ground--dead. The other is standing up and wearing a park ranger's uniform--alive. Who would you ask for directions? Obviously, the living one.

A similar situation surrounds the questions of life after death. Many religions claim to have the answers, but they all contradict each other.[1] They cannot all be true. So how can we know who to believe?

Christianity seems to be unique. Its founder and leader, Jesus Christ, not only experienced death, but it is claimed that He also rose from the dead and remains alive. If this is true, who would you believe concerning matters of eternal destiny--one who is lying in his grave, or one who has risen from the grave?

If Jesus has risen, it would seem reasonable to consider His claim to be the only way to God: "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through me" (John 14:6). But, according to the apostle Paul, "If Christ has not been raised, [the Christian's] faith is worthless" (1 Cor. 15:17). So the question arises: Did Jesus really rise from the dead?

To investigate this issue, we will examine six facts which virtually all scholars--even critical non-Christian scholars--who address Christ's resurrection accept as historical.[2] We will also see that the Bible is not the only source of evidence for Christ's resurrection. John Singleton Copley, recognized as one of the greatest legal minds in British history, sums up the matter well: "I know pretty well what evidence is; and I tell you, such evidence as that for the resurrection has never broken down yet."[3]

1. Jesus Christ died due to the rigors of crucifixion and was buried in a tomb

Jesus was crucified. Extra-biblical sources (sources apart from the Bible) confirm this fact. Of particular interest is a reference by Thallus, a non-Christian Samaritan historian. He regarded the crucifixion of Jesus as so significant that he included it in his History of the World, which he wrote about A.D. 52. Thallus tried to explain away the darkness that fell when Jesus died on the cross as an eclipse of the sun.[4] Jewish sources also refer to Jesus' crucifixion at passover.[5]

Jesus was dead. The nature of crucifixion ensures death. After analyzing the medical and historical evidence leading to Jesus' death, an article in the Journal of the American Medical Association concludes: "Accordingly, interpretations based on the assumption that Jesus did not die on the cross appear to be at odds with modern medical knowledge" (March 21, 1986, p. 1463). Even if Jesus had not died on the cross, surely He would have died from three days in the tomb without food, water, and much needed medical attention.

2. Jesus' tomb was empty just a few days later

Professor of philosophy Dr. G.R. Habermas in his Ancient Evidence for the Life of Jesus writes: "Our study [of the extra-biblical sources] has shown that Jesus taught in Palestine and was crucified and buried in Jerusalem under Pontius Pilate. These sources assert that Christianity had its beginnings in the same location." Christ's apostles did not go to some obscure place to begin preaching about His resurrection, but instead went back to the city of Jerusalem, the very place of Jesus' execution and grave. If what the apostles were preaching had been false, it would have been evident to the people in Jerusalem and Christianity more than likely would not have begun.

This situation therefore demands that Jesus was no longer in His tomb. Paul Althaus writes that the resurrection proclamation "could not have been maintained in Jerusalem for a single day, for a single hour, if the emptiness of the tomb had not been established as a fact for all concerned."[6]

Second, early Jewish testimony admits the empty tomb. Matthew 28:11-15 makes reference to the Jewish assertion that the disciples stole the body. The author then adds that this story was still being spread at the time when he was writing. This text could not have been written unless there really was a Jewish counterargument to the empty tomb--otherwise, this passage would have been exposed as a fraud. Also, the passage would have been pointless, since its main purpose was to refute the Jewish allegation. The significance of this is that the early Jews did not deny the empty tomb, but rather admitted the empty tomb by trying to explain it away. Additionally, Josh McDowell points out that a compilation of 5th century Jewish writings, called the Toledoth Jeshu, acknowledges that the tomb was empty. Dr. Paul Maier calls this "positive evidence from a hostile source, the strongest kind of historical evidence. In essence, if a source admits a fact that is decidedly not in its favor, the fact is genuine." That is exactly the case with the empty tomb.

Because of the strong case for the empty tomb, there are many natural theories that attempt to explain it away in order to deny Christ's resurrection.

Did the disciples go to the wrong tomb? This cannot be the case because the Jewish authorities, since they were against Christianity,would have wasted no time in producing the body of Jesus from the proper tomb, putting an end to Christianity. Surely someone would have discovered this "mistake."

Did the disciples steal the body? If so, then the men who delivered to the world the highest moral standards it has ever known were frauds, liars, and hypocrites. Is this credible to believe? Paul Little asks, "Are these men, who helped transform the moral structure of society, consummate liars or deluded madmen? These alternatives are harder to believe than the fact of the resurrection, and there is not a shred of evidence to support them."[7]

Did the Jews or the Romans steal it? Dr. John Warwick Montgomery dispels this possibility: "It passes the bounds of credibility that the early Christians could have manufactured such a tale and preached it among those who might easily have refuted it by producing the body of Jesus."[8] If they had the body, why didn't they put the corpse on a cart and wheel it through Jerusalem, thus eliminating for all time any belief in Christ's resurrection?

What about grave robbers anonymous? They steal what's on the body, not the body. Who would want to steal a dead corpse?

In addition, most scholars today reject these natural theories because they all fail to explain another crucial factor:

3. The disciples had real experiences with one whom they believed was the risen Christ

This fact is not widely disputed today, even among critical scholars,[9] because of the first-hand testimony supporting it. The gospels, which record these appearances, claim to have been written by eyewitnesses to the life of Jesus and by those who recorded eyewitness testimony. These internal claims are confirmed by external sources.[10] In addition, the reliability and trustworthiness of the New Testament has been confirmed by extra-biblical sources and archaeology.[11] For these reasons, the conclusion that the gospels record eyewitness testimony, as they claim, cannot be denied.

In these reliable eyewitness documents, Jesus is reported to have appeared physically alive to His disciples after His crucifixion. This testimony is verified by 1 Cor. 15:3-8. In this passage, Paul is recording an early creed concerning the resurrection appearances which, the majority of scholars believe, he received within six years of the crucifixion from Peter and James. Since Peter and James are both mentioned in this creed as having seen Jesus alive after His death, we may agree with Jewish scholar Pinchas Lapide who says that this creed "may be considered the statement of eyewitnesses."[12]

Because the gospels and this creed are the early testimony of eyewitnesses (not to mention that these eyewitnesses have been shown to be trustworthy), the theory that the resurrection is a myth or legend can be ruled out. There are only three options--the disciples hallucinated, lied, or really encountered the bodily risen Christ.

The disciples could not have been hallucinating because this theory is flatly contradicted by certain psychological principles governing the appearances of hallucinations. Also, the disciples record touching Jesus and giving Him food (Luke 24:39-43), which cannot be done with a hallucination. In addition, this theory fails to account for the empty tomb. The next option is that the apostles were lying. But... 4. Jesus' disciples were transformed into bold witnesses who died for their belief in the resurrection.

Of the twelve disciples, ten died for their belief in Christ's resurrection and their belief in Him as the Son of God. This is significant because if Jesus had not risen from the dead His disciples knew it. People may die for something they believe to be true, but is in fact false. But if the resurrection did not happen, the disciples did not just die for a lie which they mistakenly believed to be true, but died for a lie that they knew was a lie. Ten people would not all give their lives for something they knew to be a lie.

Josh McDowell puts this well: "Jesus followers could not have faced torture and death unless they were convinced of His resurrection. The unanimity of their message and course of conduct was amazing...if they were deceivers, it's hard to explain why one of them didn't break down under pressure."[13] After witnessing events such as Watergate, can we reasonably suppose that the disciples could have totally covered up such a lie?

5. The existence of the Christian Church

Christianity requires an historic cause. It did not exist until about A.D. 30, when it suddenly burst to life, spread like wildfire, and changed the world. What could have started this if not the resurrection, as the early Christians claimed?

Josh McDowell writes, "The Church was founded on the resurrection, and disproving it would have destroyed the whole Christian movement. However, instead of any such disproof, through the 1st century, Christians were threatened, beaten, flogged and killed because of their faith."[14] It would have been much simpler to silence Christianity by putting forth evidence disproving the resurrection, but this could not be done.

6. The conversion of Paul

If there was no resurrection, then Paul deceived the other apostles of an appearance of Christ to him, and they in turn deceived Paul! "Even worse, what could have motivated him to `sell out' to his former `ministry' of persecuting the Christians when he was convinced that it was God's will? From his point of view, why would he risk the damnation of his own soul by converting to what he perceived as anti-Jewish beliefs?"[15] Paul says that it was an appearance of the risen Christ that convinced him that Christianity is true.

Based on the evidence, my conclusion is that the Christian faith is a reasonable faith (not a blind faith), based not on myth or legend, but on a solid historical event--the resurrection of Jesus. What do you think? Would you agree with George Ladd, who said, "The only rational explanation for these historical facts is that God raised Jesus in bodily form"?[16] How else would you explain all of these facts? Perhaps before you come to a conclusion, you should consider one more reason.

Jesus has transformed millions of lives throughout history

My reasons for believing in Christ's resurrection are not simply based on historical facts, as important as they are. I believe that Jesus rose from the dead because He lives in me and I have experienced the abundant life He offers. Millions of others have experienced this, too, which leads us to the most important question of all: What is the significance of Christ's resurrection?

First, we can be sure that life does not end at the grave. Second, we can be certain that Jesus is who He claimed to be -- fully God and fully man. Therefore, Jesus is the only one who can speak with certainty and final authority on matters of eternal destiny. This verifies Jesus' claim to be the only way to God and the claim that Christianity is true. Third, there is genuine hope. Through the risen Jesus, we can enter into a personal relationship with the living God, have the certainty of eternal life, and experience His abundant life.

Several years ago, I began this relationship with God. I understood that God loved me and created me to know Him personally. But, I was also aware that before a holy and just God I was morally guilty (i.e. sinful) and deserving of His judgment. I came to understand that a relationship with God could not be restored unless the penalty for my sin was paid--eternal death (Rom. 6:23).

The good news is that, on the cross, Jesus died in our place to pay the death penalty for our sin (Rom. 5:8). That's what it means to say "Christ died for us." That is also why He is the only way to God--only Jesus has died to provide our forgiveness. If there was any other way, Jesus' wouldn't have died. His resurrection demonstrates that He conquered death and sin.

The Bible says that this relationship with God and eternal life is a gift and therefore cannot be earned by good moral behavior (Eph. 2:8,9). Like any other gift, I knew that I had to accept it before it would become mine (John 1:12). So I admitted to God that I was guilty of rebellion toward Him and made a decision to put my trust in Jesus to forgive me and to give me eternal life. I have been encouraged by His promises to come into my life (Revelation 3:20), to give me eternal life (John 5:24) and to make me a new person (2 Corinthians 5:17). This gives me hope not only for the here after, but also for the here and now.

No one wants to believe in something that isn't true, especially me. The resurrection of Jesus has given me substantial reason to believe that my faith is not in vain.

The evidence is clear: Mohammed's tomb -- occupied. Buddha's tomb -- occupied. Confucius' tomb -- occupied. Jesus' tomb -- EMPTY. What is your verdict?

Notes

1. Mortimer J. Adler, Truth in Religion: The Plurality of Religions and the Unity of Truth, Macmillan, 1990.
2. Antony Flew and Gary Habermas, Did Jesus Rise From the Dead?, pp. 19-20.
3. Wilbur M. Smith, Therefore Stand, p. 425.
4. F.F. Bruce, The New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable?, InterVarsity Press, 1972, p. 113.
5. The Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin, 43a.
6. Josh McDowell, Evidence that Demands a Verdict, Thomas Nelson Publishers, 1979, p. 217.
7. Paul Little, Know Why You Believe, Scripture Press Publications, Inc., 1971, p. 63.
8. John Warwick Montgomery, History and Christianity, InterVarsity Press, 1972, p. 78.
9. Carl Braaten, History and Hermeneutics, p. 78. 10. History and Christianity, pp. 31-35.
11. Evidence, pp. 65-74.
12. Pinchas Lapide, The Resurrection of Jesus, p.99. For a more in-depth treatment of 1 Cor. 15:3-8, refer to endnote 15, pp. 67-68. 13. Josh McDowell, More Than a Carpenter, Tyndale House Publishers, 1977, p. 67.>br> 14. Evidence, p. 218.
15. Gary Habermas & J.P. Moreland, Immortality: The Other Side of Death, Tyndale House Publishers, 1992, p. 58.
16. George Ladd, I Believe in the Resurrection of Jesus, William B. Eerdsman Publishing, 1975, p. 141.

Unless otherwise indicated, all Scripture quotations are from the New American Standard Bible, copyright 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1975, 1977, by the Lockman Foundation.

The Resurrection of Christ: Myth or Reality?

83 posted on 01/22/2004 11:42:41 AM PST by sweetliberty (Even the smallest person can change the course of the future. - (LOTR))
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To: thinktwice
A couple more relevant points:

THE COMA THEORY.

This is the claim that Christ did not really die on the cross, but rather He fell into a coma and later revived.

Mark 15:44-45 Pilate was surprised to hear that he was already dead. Summoning the centurion, he asked him if Jesus had already died. When he learned from the centurion that it was so, he gave the body to Joseph.

1. The Roman soldiers affirmed that Christ had died. These men were professional executioners who would not have made a mistake.

John 19:31-35 Because the Jews did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down. The soldiers therefore came and broke the legs of the first man who had been crucified with Jesus and then those of the other. But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus' side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water. The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe.

2. Jesus' friends saw Him die and entertained no hopes that He had somehow survived the crucifixion, which was the most severe form of execution of ancient times. With his own eyes the Apostle John saw a soldier pierce the Savior's side. He reported that blood and water flowed out of Christ's side. Doctors today recognize this flow of fluids as convincing evidence that Jesus had indeed expired.

3. In addition, those who hold to the coma theory are forced to give a logical explanation for the following unlikely occurrences:

a. How Jesus, though severely injured, survived 36 hours in a cold tomb without food, water, or any other care.

b. How this severely weakened man rolled away the stone that blocked the exit, a feat requiring the strength of several healthy men.

c. How He sneaked past the soldiers without being detected.

d. How, in spite of His broken health, He could convince the disciples that He had won a victory over death.

e. How He had the energy to walk 14 miles to the town of Emmaus and back that very day (See Luke 24:13-15, and 28).

Clearly, the coma theory is more incredible than the resurrection.

THE THEFT THEORY.

This is the oldest of all arguments against the resurrection. The Apostle Matthew tells us how it came into existence.

Matthew 28:11-15 While the women were on their way, some of the guards went into the city and reported to the chief priests everything that had happened. When the chief priests had met with the elders and devised a plan, they gave the soldiers a large sum of money, telling them, "You are to say, 'His disciples came during the night and stole Him away while we were asleep.' If this report gets to the governor, we will satisfy him and keep you out of trouble. So the soldiers took the money and did as they were instructed. And this story has been widely circulated among the Jews to this very day.

Is the theft theory plausible?

1. The depression and cowardice of the disciples argues against it. They had abandoned Jesus upon His arrest (Mark 14:66-72). All of them were thoroughly disillusioned by the death of their leader of whom they had expected so much. They were in no mood to dare to attack a detachment of well-armed soldiers and snatch the body out of the tomb.

2. Even if the disciples had attempted to steal the body, they would have been killed. The Roman soldier was the most stalwart and well-trained fighting man in the world. The soldiers would have made mincemeat out of non-professional fighters such as the disciples.

3. The claim is made that the soldiers fell asleep. However, Roman soldiers were not prone to fall asleep. Why? Because it was death for a Roman sentinel to snooze at his post, and this law was rigidly enforced. In light of this fact, it is impossible that all of them could have fallen asleep when they had been stationed there for the very purpose to see that the body was not stolen. And one other question: Even if they had fallen asleep, how then did the disciples roll away the stone without making a loud racket?

4. If the soldiers were snoozing, how could they know that the disciples stole the body? What judge would listen to you if you said that while you were sleeping, your neighbor came into your house and stole your television? Who knows what goes on while he is asleep? Testimony like this would be thrown out of any court. [Paul Little, Know Why You Believe, Scripture Press, 1971, p. 63,64]

5. The most convincing argument against the theft theory is the drastic change that took place in the apostles. They had been a disillusioned, cowardly bunch. Then suddenly they were transformed into bold witnesses of the resurrection of Jesus Christ (See Acts 4:17-20).

They dedicated their entire lives to spreading this message to the world, without receiving any material or financial benefit for themselves.

What caused this turnabout? The Bible says it was caused by the rising of a man from the dead. Those who believe the theft theory must say that it was caused by the crime of stealing the body, followed by the falsehood of proclaiming that Jesus had returned to life.

Tell me, would you die for a lie? The Watergate Scandal of the 1970's is an example of how people are unwilling to be persecuted for what they know to be a lie. At first, President Nixon's aides tried to maintain a united front against the investigators and the press. But before long, they were ratting on each other in order to save their own hides. None of them was in danger of losing his life. Yet, even so, they turned on each other and revealed the truth, in the hope that they could thus bargain a lighter sentence from the judge.

Men do not die for what they know to be a lie. All the Apostles of Jesus were persecuted for their beliefs, and all but John were martyred for their faith. To save their skins all they had to do was say, "Look, it was all a hoax. Jesus did not really rise." But instead the apostles went to their deaths proclaiming what they knew to be an historical fact--Jesus Christ rose from the dead!

Death Meets Its Match

84 posted on 01/22/2004 11:59:40 AM PST by sweetliberty (Even the smallest person can change the course of the future. - (LOTR))
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To: sweetliberty
You ***Rock*** - I have to admit I have skimmed your responses since I am at work, but I know exactly what you are getting at.

Bump for a later, more leisurely read, ((((sl)))))
85 posted on 01/22/2004 12:10:22 PM PST by dansangel (*PROUD to be a knuckle-dragging, toothless, inbred, right-wing, Southern, gun-toting Neanderthal *)
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To: Wolfstar
"Jesus explicitly affirms the distinction between a secular government and private religious faith when he teaches us to "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and unto God that which is God's."

Yes, and He also said, "blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord."

There is a difference in being a spiritual leader and being a Godly leader. The president has no need to be a spritual leader for we should be getting our spiritual leadership from our churches and synagogues, but as a Christian, commited to God and to the leadership of the nation, he should be an example of Godliness. I'm not making a judgement here about whether he is or isn't; just a general statement that he should be. This is supported by the words of the founding fathers.

Patrick Henry has noted: "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians, not by religions, but by the gospel of Jesus Christ."

Samuel Adams, just after the 13 colonies voted to separate from England said: "We have this day restored the Sovereign to Whom alone men ought to be obedient. He reigns in heaven and from the rising to the setting sun, may His kingdom come."

"The only foundation for a republic is to be laid in Religion. Without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty, and liberty is the object and life of all republican governments." Benjamin Rush, college professor and physician.

"It would be peculiarly improper to omit, in this official act my fervent supplication to that Almighty Being, who rules over the universe, who presides in the council of nations, and whose providential aid can supply every human defect, that His benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the people of the United States...Every step by which they have advanced seems to have been distinguished by some providential agency. We ought to be no less persuaded that the propitious smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right which Heaven itself has ordained." George Washington, President of the United States.

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams, Founding Father.

"Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that their liberties are the gift of God?" Thomas Jefferson, President of the United States.

"Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty of a Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers." First Chief Justice, John Jay, and Governor of New York.

"Where there is no religion, there is no morality...with the loss of religion...the ultimate foundation of confidence is blown up; and of life, liberty and property are buried in ruins." Timothy Dwight, President, Yale University, July 4, 1798.

"The moral principles and precepts contained in the scriptures ought to form the basis of all our civil constitutions and laws. All the miseries and evils which men suffer from vice, crime, ambition, injustice, oppression, slavery, and war, proceed from their despising or neglecting the precepts contained in the Bible." Noah Webster, compiler of the American Dictionary of the English Language in 1828.

"Whenever the pillars of Christianity shall be overthrown, our present republican forms of government, and all the blessings which flow from them, must fall with them." Jedidiah Morse, father of American Geography. Also father of Samuel Morse inventor of the telegraph and "Morse Code".

"It is my conviction that the fundamental trouble with the people of the United States is that they have gotten too far away from Almighty God." Warren G. Harding, 29th President of the United States.

"If we and our posterity shall be true to the Christian religion, if we and they shall live always in the fear of God and shall respect His Commandments...we may have the highest hopes of the future fortunes of our country...But if we and our posterity neglect religious instruction and authority, violate the rules of eternal justice, trifle with the injunctions of morality, and recklessly destroy the political constitution which holds us together, no man can tell how sudden a catastrophe may overwhelm us that shall bury all our glory in profound obscurity." Daniel Webster

"It is impossible to mentally or socially enslave a Bible-reading people." Horace Greeley founder of the New York Tribune.

It is my opinion that this last statement is the fundamental reason that the socialists and their organizations have waged war on public expressions of Biblical faith and representations of it in public life.

86 posted on 01/22/2004 12:36:39 PM PST by sweetliberty (Even the smallest person can change the course of the future. - (LOTR))
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To: sweetliberty
A very well-stated response to my post, sweetliberty. I agree with your conclusion.
87 posted on 01/22/2004 12:38:23 PM PST by Wolfstar (George W. Bush — the 1st truly great world leader of the 21st Century)
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To: thinktwice
"You can go right on thinking that you were created in the image of God, but please realize that such is wishful and self-serving thought."

Only if God is a liar.

" God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent; Has He said, and will He not do it? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good? (Num. 23:19)

"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear. -- Thomas Jefferson"

The scriptures do not call us to blind faith, but to know why we believe what we believe "...be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear." (1 Pet. 3:15")

88 posted on 01/22/2004 12:56:03 PM PST by sweetliberty (Even the smallest person can change the course of the future. - (LOTR))
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To: thinktwice
So now the writings of Bastiat, Toqueville, and Blackstone are invalid because they are old? I guess, then, that you aren't too concerned about the Constitution, since it's older than all of them. Nor the ideas of liberty, natural rights, etc.....they're all old constructs.......but then again, tyranny, socialism, activist judiciaries, and world domination weren't invented in the 20th century either. Your opinions are far more petrified than mine.
89 posted on 01/22/2004 1:51:56 PM PST by Abe Froman
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To: thinktwice
So now the writings of Bastiat, Toqueville, and Blackstone are invalid because they are old? I guess, then, that you aren't too concerned about the Constitution, since it's older than all of them. Nor the ideas of liberty, natural rights, etc.....they're all old constructs.......but then again, tyranny, socialism, activist judiciaries, and world domination weren't invented in the 20th century either. Your opinions are far more petrified than mine.
90 posted on 01/22/2004 1:56:24 PM PST by Abe Froman
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To: Abe Froman
"Man -- he is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself, and cuts his throat if his theology isn't straight." -- Mark Twain.
91 posted on 01/22/2004 2:40:56 PM PST by thinktwice (A culture that muzzles reason and truth will not be well remembered.)
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To: thinktwice
I see you've gone from a bad argument to complete irrelevancy. Good job.
92 posted on 01/23/2004 7:43:12 AM PST by Abe Froman
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To: Abe Froman
Your opinions are far more petrified than mine.

Your entire post 90 is an incorrect attempt to get a rise out of me; and I thought the best response to that might be Twain's humor.

Might I recommend your reading of Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics?

93 posted on 01/23/2004 4:58:57 PM PST by thinktwice ("To succeed in the other trades, capacity must be shown; in the law, concealment of it will do. Twai)
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To: thinktwice
I wasn't intended to "get a rise" out of you. Merely an attempt to show that the argument you presented with your Twain quote (that the writings of the authors I mentioned were invalid due to their age, apparently) was illegitimate.
94 posted on 01/24/2004 1:40:31 PM PST by Abe Froman
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To: Abe Froman
The "petrified opinions" I had in mind are mindless religious opinions, not Bastiat et al.
95 posted on 01/24/2004 7:15:06 PM PST by thinktwice (The human mind is blessed with reason, and to waste that blessed mind is treason)
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To: thinktwice
I wasn't discussing those. As I explained in a previous post, I don't expect non-believers to be swayed by a religious argument.

You're pretty good at pounding the table and changing the subject, just notso-hotso at making a good point.
96 posted on 01/26/2004 7:26:09 AM PST by Abe Froman
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