[Frank_Discussion]

So right you are. There still isn't a Delta 6, though.

Man-Rating is expensive, but that's what I expect for the CEV in the short run, some sort of Saturn variant in the medium run, Fully reusable in the long run.

[CasearianDaoist]

No I did not mean to say there was a Delta 6. Some of the USAF plans for future EELVs may in fact be more powerful that the 4s but that is still under wraps. There are also some new lifter engine designs going on that may change the game a little (redefine what "heavy" means) but that is further out in time.

For large cargo - especially cargo the has large fareable dimension requirements - they may take a shuttle/fuel tank approach but it will be a wingless mostly dumb module.

What they really need to do is establish space-based, in orbit fabrication if not outright manufacturing and construction, and open that infrastructure up to commercial sat vendors. We would see a whole new generation of architectures if the designs did not have to be lifted into orbit and they could be service from space. I think that they were mum about this for some political reasons as some of these new architectures do not rely on solar power (if you know what I mean.)

Me myself, favor the approach where they are going (I think that it is derived from USAF thinking.) Lots of mid-sized EELVs, keep it cheap and dependable and have lots of launches. Incremetally improve things.

I like what I see with emerging smaller firm solutions like the FALCON.

I think that Bush actually got it right but it is seems to be a hard sell because the solution has such a comprehensive and long term vision to it. I sure hope they can bring it off.

[mvpel]

There's been proposals out there for "shuttle-derived" heavy-lift vehicles, using various components of the Shuttle system such as the ET, SRBs, and engines, and instead of hoisting 15,000 pounds of wings, 3,000 pounds of tail, 8,000 pounds worth of landing gear, etc, etc, etc, you could have that much more cargo.

There's also derivatives that place the main engines on the bottom of the ET and the cargo on top, with two more SRBs attached to the tank.

This website shows about 103,000 pounds worth of stuff attributable to the airplane-like components of the shuttle:

http://www.spacecoretech.org/coretech2000/Presentations/Systems/winged_vs_ballistic/Winged%20vs%20Ballistic%20Recovery%20of%20RLV.html