FBI probes reports of other 9/11 operatives

usa today ^ | 1/20/04

[knak]

WASHINGTON

[untenured]

Meanwhile, the FBI continues to investigate a theory that al-Qaeda wanted to hijack more than the four jets that were crashed in New York City, Washington and Pennsylvania in the attacks that killed nearly 3,000 people.

I didn't bookmark them, but I vaguely recall that there were several stories in the media about other events on planes that never got off the ground on 9/11. At JFK airport several passengers on a plane that was stuck at the gate started talking excitedly in Arabic before eventually leaving the plane against instructions. And I remember box cutters being found on a plane that was supposed to leave from Toronto.

If anyone has those threads I would like to read them again.

[Dialup Llama]

>Based in part on an examination of immigration records, some FBI officials are examining whether al-Qaeda deployed more operatives than it needed to carry out the 9/11 attacks because it expected some of them would be turned away at U.S. borders, said the sources, who are familiar with the FBI's 9/11 probe.

If our immgration laws and procedures for visa applications were followed, how many of the 19 9-11 terrorists would have been turned away? I read that 17 of the 19 would have been blocked.

[Shermy]

Yep, I remember the reports from Logan of more box cutters found. Airline industry is touchy about revealing those things...

Many FBI officials have doubted that accused terrorist Zacarias Moussaoui, 35, a French citizen arrested while taking flight lessons in Minnesota in August 2001, was meant to be the "20th hijacker."

I don't know when this started...when Moussaoui himself said he was part of a second wave? Anyway, the prosecutors dropped the cropduster accusations they first asserted. Will they bring them back?

[Shermy]

Box-cutters found on Sept. 11 plane -Air Canada

[OneTimeLurker]

I sincerely hope they aren't just thinking about this posibility. I am sure they aren't though.

[swarthyguy]

There were reports of "pilots" on other planes riding in cockpits who disappeared after all air travel was grounded.

One freeper related a story of twitchy, nervous ME types at DFW. There were other reports of ME men on planes who disappeared as soon as they deplaned.

There was a report of ME men in planes at Heathrow airport on the ground due to a delayed flight.

Some were posted as articles, others were personal recollections.

[Tacis]

Interesting article. I've always said that we missed some good leads by failing to follow up on what, to me at least, were obvious possibilities. On 9/11, four crews of Saudis seized 4 aricraft and crashed them. That much we know.

But, how likely is a 100% attack. Try sending a bunch of folks on the east coast to a meeting. There will ALWAYS be delays, cancellations and unavoidable problems. There weren't just 4 Saudi crews, there were 6 or 8. They all left from home that morning and reported to an airport. Somewhere, there was a wreck on the tollway and some didn't get there. Those were the Saudis that we should have tracked down!

Most of the Saudi terrorists, however, in the country today, came across the much easier Mexican border. They will launch the next attacks.

[ashrak]

I think the next wave of aircraft attacks will come from pilots that already have control of the plane to start with.

Remember the egyptian pilot that took his plane down? I believe it was just called a suicide.

Though some changes have been made in airport security from the passenger side, the maintenece side is still a joke. Speaking from the point of view of an airplane refurbisher, there is little to no oversight on the corperate side of things. Not in regards to pilots nor with mechanincs or owners.

A gulf stream 5 would do as much damage and is a privately owned jet. To think this is stoppable from the aircraft side is futile. Stopping their attempts is the only way to be sure...the airport security is a feel good measure for the sheep that think the only part of security that matters is bagage handling and passenger screening.

It is only a matter of time before we are hit again.
Rumsfeld said it best " it is imposible to defend all targets from all forms of attack all the time".....this quote is only seconded by another of his quotes when he said " no matter what you do or do not do, someone will always be unhappy with it".

Popint is this folks...the bush administration is doing the best job that can be done, even if it does not appear to be doing so at first glance.

Be assured that this war IS being faught on many fronts, and I think it is a testament to their efforts that we have yet to be hit with a major attack since that of 9 11.

[yoe]

This should read:.......Zacarias Moussaoui, a member of al-Qaeda is in a Virginia jail, living high on the hog at taxpayers expense while awaiting trial.He states he is an avowed enemy of the United States. The judge in this case, rather than commit him to a military tribunal for trial, is treating him like he were a Citizen of the United States – which he is not. What is not being reported is the question of his visa, how he got it, when he got it and was it up to date.

Were I a Virginian, I would gather forces with others in my state and have the judge thrown off the case and allow a law abiding judge take over with the motion that the present judge is unfit to try this French terrorist and a motion to try him in a Military Tribunal where he belongs.

Judge Leonie Brinkema, IMHO is not fit to be a judge; she also banned a public library from filtering out pornography on its computers. Another Socialist/Marxist on the bench making law....She was appointed by Bill Clinton in 1993.

[Mrs. Xtrmst]

Wasn't there a poem &/or painting found in Iraq last Spring depicting 5 planes crashing 9/11? Is a puzzlement.

[genefromjersey]

About (expletive) time they got their heads out of their (expletives) !

Seriously,it would probably be useful if the FBI agents investigating cases as crimes were permitted to take a good look at the reams and reams of material they have in their own files,but have not been allowed to see, because it is "intelligence" !

[VOA]

bump

[VOA]

bump

[Eroteme]

I think the next wave of aircraft attacks will come from pilots that already have control of the plane to start with.

I agree. Such a plan would certainly have occurred to AQ and its sympathizers, and likely has been on the drawing board for some time. Our biggest risk is with foreign airlines.

A wave of attacks wouldn't even be necessary. Just one pilot-perpetrated event would cripple the industry--and by extension, an enormous chunk of the economy reliant upon air travel.

Such an MO has no doubt also occurred to our intelligence agencies. But the front line is pilots and crew. I'd wager that most US pilots have, for some time, individually and silently, engaged in their own form of profiling. Ideally, concerns are shared with law enforcement and acted upon.

However, the flip side of that coin is the environment of PC bureaucracy. Do they risk a career on gut feeling, or do they just call in sick when scheduled to be locked in that reinforced cockpit with the guy they're not so sure about?

[eno_]

Absolutely!

The picture of 9/11 does not fit a betting man's view of things. Atta's remarks indicate there was no set numnber of planes to be hijacked. He probably didn't know the scope of the entire operation. It is almost dead certain that other hijack teams escaped after being delayed on the ground or when their flights landed prematurely.

The fact that seemingly ZERO (maybe one, recently) of these people were ever captured, while 5000 or so random Arabs with sketchy cash businesses were hauled in by the Feebs doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling about air travel security.

[eno_]

If our immgration laws and procedures for visa applications were followed, how many of the 19 9-11 terrorists would have been turned away? I read that 17 of the 19 would have been blocked.

Shhhhhhhhhh. Don't say that too loud or someone might question the need for the Patriot Acts.

[ashrak]

I think you have a good point. I wonder what some of them do think when confronted with a pilot they have sketchy feelings about.

I also agree that it only will take one plane to do what five or six would do. But I think al qaeda is not that smart and are more in tune to ONE UP their last attack.Unless it is a one planer to take out the white house...the target they missed last time.

To be honest, another attack WILL come it is just a matter of time...imho. I just hope we step up the responce with toys created for the mighty ussr. I think tora bora was a missed opportunity on that note.....i fear we will never use the resource we have that has cost so much...i am of the belief that they are a deterrant...but without use they offer no deterrant. If 9 11 did not warrant them, what the heck does? Only a first strike by another? I think that is a flawed liberal agenda that will end up costing us HUGE in time to come.