Posted on 01/20/2004 9:34:09 AM PST by Willie Green
Edited on 04/13/2004 2:03:19 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
"The message of the president, by whatever motives it may have been dictated, is a performance which ought to alarm all who are anxious for the safety of our government, for the respectability and welfare of our nation. It makes, or aims at making, a most prodigal sacrifice of constitutional energy, of sound principle, and of public interest, to the popularity of one man."
(Excerpt) Read more at pittsburghlive.com ...
I guess it all depends on how one defines "base".
Base means Republicans. Is means is.
That would not include those who threw their support behind pat buchanan even after he actively courted a Marxist and groveled to Al Sharpton for votes.
President Bush has become an expert in the latter.
Those "proper bounds" are the Constitution of the United States, which reserves powers to the states and the people which are not specifically assigned to the federal government in the U.S. Constitution.
I think he is married, shame on him if he did.
We should be able to achieve a meaningful consensus on the definition of "Marxist" though. Would you say that it could mean someone who belongs to an organization that was founded by a notorious Marxist for the purpose of bringing socialism to America?
Well there you go. It was just a misunderstanding. You see, base, to me, means conservatives.
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/presiden/sou/jeffmes1.htm
After reading the "message," two things become quite apparent:
1) Mr. Jefferson's views were quite similar to those of many modern conservatives and Republicans - and indeed, Mr. Jefferson referred to himself as a "republican;" and
2) Mr. Hamilton would be much more at home with modern liberals and Democrats...
;>)
No problem. Most people when they talk about the base for the 'rats are talking about Democrats as opposed to the center independents or the irrelevant left wing fringe that votes Green or Socialist Party. Much like the right fringe who vote for the Constipationalist Party, no amount of pandering to the fringe will ever get their vote and will only cost most of the center. The left and right fringe are equally irrelevant to American politics.
The fringe often likes to think they are the base and despite reality slapping them upside the head every time they threaten to consider voting FOR a major (winner) party candidate...nobody listens or cares.
I'd be interested in your comments on this one. This is an interesting sentiment coming from Mr. "Energy in the executive is a leading character in the definition of good government". It seems, however, that as soon as one of his political opponents gets the job, all of the sudden he gets a tad uneasy about potential abuses of executive power ;-)
These three can't call for less government spending, they can only call for more! Bush can claim that compared to what, say, an Edwards might offer, he is the model of restraint.
You've just demonstrated very ably how the left operates. Even when they don't win elections, they get their agenda enacted by pulling the entire political establishment in their direction. It's high time for the right to start applying the same lesson.
;>)
Jefferson was a radical...
Yes, I'm sure the monarchists and their 'fellow travelers' considered the author of the Declaration of Independence to be a "radical"...
;>)
...with nothing in common with Republicans…
"Nothing in common with Republicans?" If you had bothered to read Mr. Jefferson’s First Annual Message, you would have learned:
* Mr. Jefferson responded to the threat of the North African pirate-states with military force. It may be news to you, but Mr. Bush responded to the threat of terrorist-states in the same fashion – something to which the Democrats largely take exception. (Frankly, the response of the civilized world to rampant piracy provides a worthwhile example for our current war on terrorism…)
* Mr. Jefferson refused to transgress the bounds imposed upon him by the Constitution, with regard to congressional approval of a declaration of war. Most of us here remember that Mr. Bush was careful to obtain congressional approval prior to invading Iraq.
* Mr. Jefferson noted that “there is reasonable ground of confidence that we may now safely dispense with all the internal taxes.” Tell us, sport: which party (Republican or Democrat), currently advocates tax cuts?
* Mr. Jefferson observed that having cut taxes, we could expect that "a sensible, and at the same time a salutary reduction, may take place in our habitual expenditures.” Tell us: which party (Republican or Democrat), has traditionally advocated restrictions on federal spending? (Here's a hint: ever hear the phrase "tax-and-spend Democrats?" ;>)
* Mr. Jefferson suggested that “we may well doubt whether our [federal] organization is not too complicated, too expensive; whether offices or officers have not been multiplied unnecessarily, and sometimes injuriously to the service they were meant to promote.” Tell us, my ignorant friend: which party (Republican or Democrat), over the last few decades, has advocated restrictions on the growth of the federal government? You have heard of "Ronald Reagan," have you not?
* Mr. Jefferson advocated “sales of the public lands.” Tell us: which party (Republican or Democrat) over the last decade or so has been more likely to add to the public lands, and remove existing public lands from commercial use by American citizens? (You do know how to pronounce "Mojave" and "Grand Staircase - Escalante," don't you? How about "ANWR?" Can you say "ANWR?" Pretty please? ;>)
* Mr. Jefferson was an ardent defender of the Second Amendment, and an advocate of the armed “militia.” Tell us: which party (Republican or Democrat) has been most active in terms of attempting to disarm the same “militia” - the people? (Or are you suggesting that Chucky Schumer, DiFi, and the Clintons are Republicans? ;>)
* Mr. Jefferson noted that “[a]griculture, manufactures, commerce, and navigation… are the most thriving when left most free to individual enterprise.” Tell us, queenhillaryscourtjester: which party (Republican or Democrat) advocates free enterprise, and which demands government control of private property under the cover of such questionable legislation as the ESA? Hmm?
* Mr. Jefferson requested a “revisal of the laws on the subject of naturalization.” From the context, it is obvious that he was referring to one of the “palpably” unconstitutional Alien & Sedition Acts – which had been passed by Mr. Hamilton’s Federalist party, and enforced by Federalist judges. Tell us: which of our current ‘major’ parties (Republican or Democrat) generally shows more respect for the Constitution? (And don't tell me that Bill Clinton was 'saving the Constitution' when he was making 'deposits' in the sink near the Oval Office... ;>)
Mr. Jefferson concluded by suggesting that Americans “preserve the general and State governments in their constitutional form and equilibrium, … maintain peace abroad, and order and obedience to the laws at home,… establish principles and practices of administration favorable to the security of liberty and prosperity, and … reduce [federal] expenses to what is necessary for the useful purposes of government.” That is most certainly a better description of Republican priorities than it is of those of the D@mocrats.
"Nothing in common with Republicans?" Obviously you (once again ;>) have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
;>)
…his party was more properly known as democrat-republican to distinguish it from federal-republican.
LOL! And factions within the “democrat-republican” party were known as “old republicans” and “new republicans,” while your ‘federal-republicans’ were generally referred to as “Federalists.”
(Not that labels are of greater importance than philosophy: it’s just another opportunity - in a long, long series of such opportunities - to prove you wrong... ;>)
Hamilton was a nationalist unlike Jefferson. He was as conservative as anyone in his day if not more.
If by "conservative" you mean someone with monarchist 'tendencies,' you may indeed be correct. The plan of government offered by Mr. Hamilton at the constitutional convention most certainly resembled the British monarchy, the House of Lords, and the House of Commons.
As for the point at hand, Thomas Jefferson’s First Annual Message was teeming with Republican principles: tax cuts, spending cuts, limited constitutional government, free enterprise – and a military response to the piratical actions of foreign governments. Yet Mr. Hamilton claimed the message:
“…ought to alarm all who are anxious for the safety of our government, for the respectability and welfare of our nation. It makes, or aims at making, a most prodigal sacrifice of constitutional energy, of sound principle, and of public interest, to the popularity of one man.”
(Gosh – Mr. Hamilton sounds exactly like a D@mocrat presidential candidate talking about George W. Bush. And you seem to be in agreement! ;>)
All Jefferson's criticism was from the Left.
Yes, your criticism of Thomas Jefferson does indeed seem to emanate “from the Left”…
;>)
As for Jefferson's embargo, I thought that one of the wiser acts of his administration. Both Britain and France (especially Britain) were committing constant insults on our shipping. What were we supposed to do?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.