U.S. Troops To Pull Out Of Seoul

The Wsahington Post ^ | January 18, 2004 | NA

[neverdem]

Reuters

SEOUL, Jan. 17 -- South Korea and the United States have agreed to pull out all American troops from Seoul as part of a global realignment plan for U.S. forces, South Korea's Defense Ministry announced Saturday.

About 7,000 U.S. soldiers and their families will be moved to an expanded facility about 45 miles south of Seoul. The move is scheduled to be completed by 2006.

The decision to move U.S. troops south, away from the border with North Korea, was made because of a request by the United States and after a meeting between the two sides in Hawaii, a ministry spokesman said.

The U.S. military presence in the center of the South Korean capital over the past 50 years has been a constant source of anti-U.S. sentiment in the country.

The Defense Ministry did not disclose details of the plan, which came a day after South Korean President Roh Moo Hyun named his foreign policy adviser, Ban Ki Moon, as foreign minister.

Ban's predecessor, criticized by some officials as being too pro-American, quit on Thursday in a dispute that pitted pro-U.S. ministry officials against presidential aides over South Korea's policy toward the United States and North Korea.

The U.S. military has said the move out of Seoul will not diminish its strength in South Korea. Officials note they plan to spend $11 billion over the next four years to modernize forces.

The United States keeps 37,000 troops in South Korea -- a legacy of the Korean War, which ended in an uneasy armistice, not a peace treaty.

The war pitted South Korea and a U.S.-led force from the United Nations against North Korea, which was backed by Chinese ground troops and Soviet aid.

The Korea Times newspaper said about 50 U.S. soldiers would remain in Seoul at a liaison office adjacent to South Korea's Defense Ministry building.

The land occupied by the U.S. forces would be returned to the Seoul metropolitan government, it said.

"We will make efforts to come up with steps in order for our people not to feel uneasy," the assistant defense minister, Cha Young Koo, said on YTN television news.

Separately, North Korea accused South Korea on Saturday of illegally deploying artillery inside the Demilitarized Zone, the buffer area created at the end of the war to keep opposing armies apart. Under a cease-fire accord, only rifles and other small arms are allowed inside the DMZ, the Associated Press reported.

"The South Korean military authorities should stop acting rashly, clearly mindful of the grave consequences to be entailed by such military provocations," the North's official KCNA news agency said.

The report provided no details of the weapons, and a spokesman for the South Korean Defense Ministry rejected the accusation as untrue.

[neverdem]

I would be surprised if this relocation was not accompanied by a reduction in the end-strengh of the US Army in Korea.

[11B3]

I'd relocate all of our forces out of Korea - to Taiwan. (Take that, China.)

[JohnBovenmyer]

Getting the US forces out of first strike artillery range from the North Koreans.

[Crowcreek]

I hope this will also get our troops out of Pyoongyang's nuclear blast radius..

[Skwidd]

Hooray! Move the troops out of Korea and let the Norks and Sorks sort out their own differences!

When do we get to pull out of Japan and Europe?

[neverdem]

When do we get to pull out of Japan and Europe?

Europe, probably much sooner than Japan, the Chicoms being a threat that all their neighbors, who are by definition barbarians, recognize.

[NYTexan]

Lets not forget to add Kosovo and the rest of the Balkins!
Also Germany, lets move them to Poland!

[BykrBayb]

Getting the US forces out of first strike artillery range from the North Koreans.

I don't think Seoul is in the first strike artillery range, though I could be mistaken. Seoul is in the center of South Korea. Besides, family members are not allowed on hazardous duty tours. The article didn't say anything about removing troops from the DMZ. It says we're moving about 7,000 troops about 45 miles south of where they are now. It also says we have 37,000 troops in South Korea. That leaves about 30,000 troops right where they are. I don't know if those figures include our Navy off-shore, but I doubt it.

The tone of the article seems to suggest that Koreans don't like American troops being there, and that's why we're moving some of them. But... "We will make efforts to come up with steps in order for our people not to feel uneasy," the assistant defense minister, Cha Young Koo, said on YTN television news." Why would the people be uneasy over our troops moving out of Seoul if they don't want them there in the first place? Could it be the people really do want our troops there, but Ban Ki Moon, who was just appointed foreign minister the day before this announcement was made, and the majority of Roh Moo Hyun's administration want us out?

[neverdem]

Lets not forget to add Kosovo and the rest of the Balkins! Also Germany, lets move them to Poland!

Pardon me, but I don't think we want to provoke Russian paranoia. Don't you think our plate is rather full with multiple Arab and Muslim extremists, crazed Persians and Koreans, generalized anti-Americanism and lurking Chicoms?

[Fledermaus]

The Japanese were even worse barbarians in the late 1800's and early 1900's before the Chinese ever became communists thugs.

[NYTexan]

Russian Paranioa? Thats been ongoing for a long time!
And yes our military's plate is full and there is a lot of guys sitting on useless posts!

We really should get the hell out of places we are no longer needed, much less welcomed, and support those areas and countries that want us there! And where the troops are really needed.

The Balkins should be the EU's problem!

[binreadin]

Seoul is NOT in the middle of S Korea, and family members have been in harm's way there for years, which was a bit of a joke for those of us stationed there. Official policy does not always reflect reality.

[LibertarianInExile]

A) Seoul's about two hours south of the North as the crow flies--if he flew about 60 mph (which means it's even closer to the north as the MiG flies). Not as close to the 'center of South Korea' as you'd hope. On the other hand, Pyongyang ain't much farther from the DMZ itself.
B) Seoul isn't in what many would consider normally artillery range, but it's an instant pile of rubble if the North ever does come south.
C) South is to Osan, mostly. It's still in harm's way, unquestionably, but MUCH safer than Seoul. Now if we can make sure that we move those troops all the way to U.S. territory--Guam, for example--it'll be even better.

[neverdem]

The Japanese were even worse barbarians in the late 1800's and early 1900's before the Chinese ever became communists thugs.

I don't want a repitition, that's why I'm leery of a hasty withdrawal.

[neverdem]

The Balkins should be the EU's problem!

The Balkans should be their problem, but what's the reason for putting U.S. bases in Poland if we don't have explicit overflight rights? Do you really want to p*ss off the Russkies, and for what reason? They could be natural allies.

[neverdem]

If you look at the map that I linked to, the scale at the right of the map will show that Seoul is a little more than 15 miles to the closest part of the DMZ. That's close to the far egde of the range for most big artillery tubes, but well within the range of tactical battlefield missiles. IIRC, Saddam exceeded the range limits at 120 kilometers, about 75 miles.

http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/korea/maps/271151.jpg

The North Koreans were reported to have 10,000 artillery tubes along the DMZ.

[BykrBayb]

Seoul is NOT in the middle of S Korea, and family members have been in harm's way there for years, which was a bit of a joke for those of us stationed there. Official policy does not always reflect reality.

Thanks for the correction. It's closer to the DMZ than I thought. I still think it's outside the range of artillery, so long as the North Korean soldiers don't come past the DMZ. I didn't mean to suggest that Seoul is a safe place to be. Only that it doesn't rise to the level of "Hazardous Duty," which would prohibit family members from attending. Am I to understand that the danger there does rise to the level that it should be classified Hazardous Duty, like the DMZ?

[BykrBayb]

Thanks for the map. I got a couple good replies, but this map was most helpful. I see that this is the proposed demarcation line from 27 November, 1951. Is this the line that was adopted?

[neverdem]

Is this the line that was adopted?

Regarding the Korean DMZ, probably, but I couldn't swear it is the current border. The point I was trying to make that Seoul, at least parts of Seoul, is within the range of North Korean cannons. The Microsoft Encyclopedia "Encarta" says Seoul is 25 miles from the DMZ. My guess is that this is an approximation from the city's geographic center. The northern parts of the city are probably closer.

Google the terms "cannon" or "tube+artillery" and you'll see that 20 - 25 miles is around the range limit for most big guns. Some big guns use "rocket assisted projectiles" to extend their range. Accuracy is lost, but the idea is bombardment of an area, and that's what is feared.

[damian85]

I have some input you might find useful. I was stationed at Camp Casey Korea for a year in the First Battalion Fifteenth Field Artillery Regiment. My job was fire direction and I know specific details about what you want to know. Most of what I know is still secret because North Korean artillery is still a threat to US forces in Korea. First let me give you some background on North Korean artillery. One US battery of M109 Paladin Self Propelled Howitzers contains six tubes at 155mm. One NK artillery battery consists of over 60 140mm tubes. What they lack in accuracy they make up for in volume. Are North Korean artillery assets a threat to Seoul? The answer: No. Even with RAP rounds,(Rocket Assisted Projectiles) their artillery would not be able to range downtown Seoul. Reason? Intervening crests. An artillery round needs open air to reach it's target. There are to many mountains in the way to get a good trajectory. On the DMZ, US and SK elements maintain a watchful eye on NK. They can see well into North Korea. At any hint of maneuver units advancing down the slot the SK side will become very busy. This is where it gets tricky about secrecy. There is a river called the Im Jin that is about the size of the Mississippi right behind the SK side of the DMZ. NK elements will get stalled there and probably reduced significantly by US air assets from Osan. If they do get across through the harassment of the sustained air attack they come across various obstacles in place and ready to blow. Getting through all these hurdles while under constant pummeling of US ordinance would be next to impossible. While all this is going on all US Forces in the South would be mobilizing and moving to their "go to war positions". All US civilian personnel would be moving south and would be evacuated out of Pusan. All this is assuming the NKA can get through a DMZ that we've had fifty years to prepare. A little long winded aren't I? If you would like to know more look an the Internet for information about Camp Gary Owen, Camp Greeves and Camp Bonnifas also use the acronym JSA. These will all help you educate yourself more. I'll continue to serve here in Germany and if you have any questions regarding military long guns let me know.