Bush Offers Migrant Plan Conservatives Can Support

Arizona Republic ^ | January 18, 2004 | Jeff Flake

[Marak]

I believe the suggested fee is $ 1000. Paying the fee would be cheaper than a roundtrip smuggle fee for most. I think for any plan to succeed, there has to be a way to severally punish those who are illegal. Make it mandatory for them to return before applying, or make those who are here illegally ineligible. This is the point that most people gripe about. He is proposing to reward those who have broken the law. It can only result in less regard for the laws of this nation.

[quack]

I believe the suggested fee is $ 1000.

I don't about where you live,but here the illegal immigrants have that much as "walking around money".Since they get paid in cash and have no bank account,they keep it rolled up in their front pocket.

[ATOMIC_PUNK]

President Bush's proposal will ensure smarter border enforcement by redirecting resources for border security and the war on terrorism away from the dishwashers and landscapers who are trying to cross the border illegally and toward the smugglers and terrorists who are attempting to cross the border for purposes far more nefarious than filling jobs that American workers are not taking.

Lets see ,,,,, Make a law break a law rewrite the law to break it easier or just ignore the law for 50 years or so and when it comes up again rewrite the law and then break the law so it can be broken more easily then rewrite the law one more time to find certain law breakers but let the not so bad law breakers get away with breaking the law

What was the reason we have laws again ?

[MissAmericanPie]

He's a Flake, he must think conservatives are also.

[Texasforever]

What was the reason we have laws again ?

We pass and repeal laws all the time.

[JustPiper]

Not me, this is the same old joke

[Marak]

"I don't about where you live,but here the illegal immigrants have that much as "walking around money".Since they get paid in cash and have no bank account,they keep it rolled up in their front pocket."

That was kind of my point. The $1000 fee is neither a deterent nor a punishment. It was probably added to the speech so they could say 'gee, look at all this money we will make'.

I truly believe going after the companies that hire illegals is the best approach. Dry up the labor market and make it more expensive to hire an illegal. Hit these employers with a fine of $100,000 for each illegal they hire.

[JustPiper]

One of the 3 stooges, yes I'm sure I believe any guest worker program he sponsors

[Happy2BMe]

A FReeper's Guide To Immigration Reform

"What remains to be seen is if this country has the capacity to accommodate, and assimilate, an unending wave of mass immigration ¯ because failure to do so will result in a balkanized, fragmented, strife-torn and dysfunctional America."

Federation for American Immigration Reform - FAIR

President Bush - stand up and tell us the truth

~ Take the FReeper Immigration Reform Poll ~

[Zipporah]

"There is nothing conservative about this plan.".. my thought exactly.

[Spiff]

He's a Flake, he must think conservatives are also.

Flake is one of the most conservative members of Congress. However, on this issue, he's lost his frikkin' mind. Either that or Kolbe & McCain have some sort of blackmail material on him. I can't figure it out - Flake is a good guy. How could he let himself get mixed up with the likes of Kolbe and McCain!?

[FairOpinion]

"Simple suggestion: why not prosecute the employers?"

"That's the best solution I can think of. Put a few employers in jail and see how fast they stop hiring illegals."

==

That is the WORST solution. You can't expect employers to be the cops for the INS. You are expecting for employers hiring minimum wage help to do a background investigation on these people, which would have a prohibitive cost.

Businesses are over regulated as is, add this additional requirement and try to enforce it with criminal prosecurtion and you will see a great many businesses closing.

[JackelopeBreeder]

The Granola Gang -- a nut, a fruit, and a flake.

[kingu]

I truly believe going after the companies that hire illegals is the best approach. Dry up the labor market and make it more expensive to hire an illegal. Hit these employers with a fine of $100,000 for each illegal they hire.

I don't know where you live, but such a thing would be a joke in California. Ahh, yes, I could see the headlines now.. 'Mom and Pop restaurant shut down by heavy fine' I am sure, somewhere, there is a major corporation that has hired illegals, but such things would be rare. Sure, you might nail Taco Bell, but with so many companies now running credit checks on all their hires, they tend to catch illegals. When Jose Gonazalas' report comes back saying that Mrs. Marple has fair credit, the company declines to hire them.

Corporate farms, perhaps? Nahh, they use the guest worker program that we already have in place, even sending teams of people down into El Salvador and other dirt pits to sign up and hire people.

The places you'll really find them is in construction industries, independent contractor cleaning firms (like Wallyworld found out), clothing subcontractors (though their workers tend to be locked up) and the most likely place - employed by another illegal. They've got a huge market in landscaping.

I doubt that there would be much success in fining Walmart for having a subcontractor that hires illegals - the company that committed the crime isolates them. Hitting up the housing developer for the illegals hired by subcontractors again isolates the people with money.

So, anyway, I wish I could agree with you, because I really want there to be a simple solution. But the problem is twenty years old with a lack of enforcement coupled with courts that have given repeated rights to the criminals. In any case, I want SOMETHING done - I do not want the status quo to continue.

[FairOpinion]

"I truly believe going after the companies that hire illegals is the best approach. Dry up the labor market and make it more expensive to hire an illegal. Hit these employers with a fine of $100,000 for each illegal they hire."

===

In other words: make businesses close down or move to Mexico, because they couldn't stay in business.


I guess you want to pay $20/lb for strawberries too.

[Reaganwuzthebest]

You can't expect employers to be the cops for the INS.

Criminal prosecution would apply only to those businesses who knowingly hire illegals. There's plenty of them openly doing it today with no penalties.

Congress is also going to have to get serious about mandating employee checks during the hiring process. Right now it's voluntary where businesses can call in and verify a SSN. Once a reliable system is set up employers will have no excuses for hiring those who shouldn't be here.

[FairOpinion]

"I don't know where you live, but such a thing would be a joke in California. Ahh, yes, I could see the headlines now.. 'Mom and Pop restaurant shut down by heavy fine' "

==

Not to mention a bunch of small homeowners being fined and lose their homes, because they hired an illegal to mow their lawn or clear the brush from their backyard, babysit their kid, or take care of their elderly parent, while they are working.

Yeah, fine the "employers" of illegal aliens!

(/sarcasm)

[Marak]

[That is the WORST solution. You can't expect employers to be the cops for the INS. You are expecting for employers hiring minimum wage help to do a background investigation on these people, which would have a prohibitive cost.

Businesses are over regulated as is, add this additional requirement and try to enforce it with criminal prosecurtion and you will see a great many businesses closing.]

Actually, it is a great solution. All the companies have to do is verify the legal right to work in this country. They can use the SSN listed on the W4 filled out by the employee. Verify that the SSN is valid for the name given. This should not require a massive background check. If there are not systems in place today to handle this trivial detail, we should create it. It is a far better solution than ignoring the problem or trying to forciblly deport 12 million people.

[Triple Word Score]

Right. Also, this is not a good time to hit American business with another huge government-imposed expense, singly or en masse. You want to see jackboots? Let the feds shut down a Denny's because one employee had a convincing social security card or someone managed to get his illegal cousin on the payroll. We saw what happened to our economy when the feds went after Microsoft during the Clinton regime. It wasn't a pretty thing. I doubt there's a large corporation anywhere in America that doesn't have illegals on the payroll in some way. The question is whether they know it--and whether they could afford to hire a legal, unionized employee to do the same job.

The economy won't grow if the government starts seizing businesses and locking up business owners left and right. And we know what a reversal of the upward trends means politically.

[FairOpinion]

"It is a far better solution than ignoring the problem or trying to forciblly deport 12 million people."

===

So if the illegal immigrants couldn't work, because nobody would hire them, but by law (CA courts ruled Prop 187 illegal) you can't deny them benefits, such as welfare and medical, instead of working, they would all be on welfare.

So how would that improve the illegal immigrant problem?