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The false dilemma behind the Bush Amnesty
January 17th, 2004 | Sabertooth

Posted on 01/17/2004 10:01:59 AM PST by Sabertooth

Debate rages, and will through 2004, about President Bush’s “not an Amnesty” Amnesty proposal to legalize the 8 to 12 million Illegal Aliens his Administration has said are currently here in our country.

Amnesty proponents and enablers uniformly offer only three solutions to the Illegal Alien problem.

1. Coexistence: Just maintain the status quo through inaction.
2. Amnesty: This is appeasement, and surrender.
3. Xenophobia: Build a police state.

That’s a pretty thin list, and as we’ll see, not an accurate one. Its exclusive presentation amounts to a fallacy of False Dilemma.

It should be noted that Amnesty is a nearly inevitable consequence of Coexistence. Not surprisingly, therefore, Amnesty proponents commonly raise the specter of Xenophobia so that they can paint dark insinuations and distract attention from the symbiosis of their appeasement with the failed policy of Coexistence. Calling other people Nazis is a neat way of cloaking one’s own kinship with Neville Chamberlain.

If we had accepted the same false dilemma in the War on Terror, we'd never have fought it. We'd be the same as Democrats, who’ve made a willingness to appease a party litmus test.

The War on Terror didn’t begin on September 11th, 2001, it began with the first World Trade Center attack in 1993, and was conducted against us by Al Qaeda and our enemies all throughout the 1990s. President Clinton, however, opted not to take the fight to the enemy, and so the Clintonistas held throughout the 90s that terrorism was an intractable problem with which we'd just have to Coexist , and made their policies accordingly. Not surprisingly, when President Clinton had an opportunity to take Osama bin Laden into custody, he lacked the courage to do so. Clinton’s spine also failed him on three occasions where our Special Forces were in position to kill bin Laden. By the end of his Presidency, Clinton’s appeasement of terror was in full bloom; visits from uber-terrorist Yassir Arafat were a source of pride to him, and ultimately, he even granted pardons to Puerto Rican terrorists.

Pardons and clemencies, like Amnesties, absolve wrongdoers of further responsibility for past crimes. When a policy of Coexistence with wrongdoing is pursued long enough, absolution of wrongdoing will eventually become part of the negotiation to make the craven failure to confront it appear magnanimous.

On September 11th, 2001, the War on Terror changed. America didn't accept the false dilemma of Coexistence, Appeasement, or Xenophobia. Coexistence had failed, and with it went any thought of absolution for wrongdoing. Clintonian appeasement was over. Xenophobic notions of “kill ‘em all, let God sort ‘em out,” and “nuke Mecca” were also ruled out, because we’re Americans, and hold ourselves to higher standards of morality and ingenuity.

What then, of the fallacy presented in the false dilemma of the Coexistence / Amnesty / Xenophobia triad?

We rightfully threw it on the ash heap of History.

We took a fourth, Asymmetric approach to the Terrorists, and are now reaping the benefits. After wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, suddenly Libya is turning over their WMD programs without a shot being fired; Iran is on the bubble and contemplating the same thing; Syria and the PLA are increasingly isolated; and Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are finally getting the message that coddling Al Qaeda is a losing proposition. Early on in the WoT, it was understood that victory is a policy which reaps a sweet harvest. While the investment in the initial successes was relatively high, they generated a momentum that is making inexpensive windfalls of subsequent victories.

Yet none of this could have happened if we’d followed the appeasement tendencies of the Democrats. In ten years, we’d have been looking at a Middle East full of North Koreas, which was the crown jewel of President Clinton’s failed policy of Coexistence and appeasement.

Naturally, being innate appeasers, the Democrats and Clinton also have pursued Coexistence and Amnesty in dealing with the problem of the millions of Illegal Aliens currently living in our country. Three times in the 1990s, Clinton signed legislation enabling Section 245(i) of the Immigration and Naturalization Code, thereby granting Amnesties to more than a million Illegals Aliens (twice with at GOP House and Senate). Appeasement failed, of course, as it must, and by the end of Clinton’s eight years, there were millions more Illegals than when he started.

Now we have a Republican Administration, as well as a GOP House and Senate. The Clintonian policies of Coexistence with and Amnesties for Illegal Aliens have clearly failed. So, President Bush has taken the initiative and offered an “Immigration Reform” proposal that would legalize not just a million Illegals, as Clinton did, but millions of them. Rather than turning from the failed Clinton policies, President Bush is embracing an even more radical version of them.

So now, pro-Amnesty Republicans and their enablers are offering the same solutions on Illegals as the Democrats did: Amnesty (even though they split hairs and pretend otherwise. They are attempting to frame the debate with the same false dilemma that the Democrats did with the War on Terror: Coexistence, Amnesty/appeasement, and Xenophobia.

Where is the fourth option, Asymmetry? It has worked so well in the WoT; why are we not exploring Asymmetric solutions to the Illegal Alien problem?

We can effectively solve much of the Illegal Alien problem, without Amnesty, if we apply a similar, Asymmetric approach to that of the War on Terror. Obviously, it's not necessary or moral to conduct a war against Illegals, but by applying systematic pressure to all of the factors that encourage the Illegals to violate our laws and sovereignty, we can win early victories that generate and sustain a momentum whereby the problem starts to solve itself.

The key is to get the Illegals to leave our country on their own initiative.

They Will Deport Themselves

There are plenty of steps we can take to do this.

Eighteen Illegal Alien solutions that are better than any Amnesty

Not only is encouragement of Illegal Alien self-deportation humane and cost effective, there has already been considerable success in this regard with Pakistani Illegals.

25% of Pakistani Illegal Aliens Deported Themselves since 2001 -
Facts against the Bush Amnesty

If we project that modest 25% self-deportation rate of the Pakistani Illegals onto the the 8 to 12 million Illegals that DHS Secretary Tom Ridge concedes are here, we’re talking about 2 to 3 million fewer Illegals in a short period of time. However, the Pakistani Illegals self-deported in response to a set of incentives that was far from comprehensive. A much higher rate of self-deportation of Illegals is certainly feasible, if we simply roll up our sleeves and get on with it.

Historian Victor Davis Hanson recently said:

We never would have had this conversation [about Illegal Aliens] in 1950. There was no conversation about a wall or a fence. It was very simple: If you came across the border illegally, you were deported. The employer was not to hire people who were here illegally. It's very simple to do, but it just requires a degree of courage.
Paradise Lost? (Victor Davis Hanson comments on Bush's immigration proposal)
The Pittsburgh Tribune-Review (FR link) - January 10, 2004
Bill Steigerwald with Victor Davis Hanson

As with the War on Terror, so too with the Illegal Aliens; it’s now time to throw the false dilemma of Coexistence, Amnesty, or Xenophobia on the ash heap of History. Amnesty failed under Presidents Reagan and Clinton, and will fail under President Bush if it’s attempted.

Rewards for lawbreaking beget more lawbreaking.

Diligent enforcement of our immigration laws succeeded in the 1950s, and would again; but we would be better served by a more humane, Asymmetric approach today, whereby relatively few deportations would result in a great many self-deportations of Illegal Aliens.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; US: Arizona; US: California; US: New Mexico; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: aliens; amnesty; bushamnesty; gop; illegalaliens; illegals; immigration; selfdeportation
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To: Sabertooth
Bump for later.
201 posted on 01/17/2004 3:35:30 PM PST by 4.1O dana super trac pak (PHASE II: The President has declared a war on poverty.)
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To: 4.1O dana super trac pak
Good tagline......
signed.....racist sexist homophobe:)
202 posted on 01/17/2004 3:38:45 PM PST by international american (support our troops...........................revoke Hillary's visa!!)
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To: txdoda
Are you sure

I thought I was. It appears I was wrong. Thanks for pointing this out.

I thought the employment verification program (Form I-9) was mandatory, not voluntary.

Unfortunately, making the program mandatory, will not curtail illegal immigration.

Marine Inspector

203 posted on 01/17/2004 3:45:55 PM PST by Marine Inspector (TANCREDO 2004)
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To: Joe Hadenuf
Quit running from the facts,

It's the only defense the Leftist and NeoCons have.

Marine Inspector

204 posted on 01/17/2004 3:51:55 PM PST by Marine Inspector (TANCREDO 2004)
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To: AzJohn
Cato is a THE libertarian think-tank. Way back on this thread (before #50) I posted an article including a link to a conference held at Cato regarding the President's proposal. The post is worth a read.
205 posted on 01/17/2004 3:54:39 PM PST by ninenot (So many cats, so few recipes)
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To: MattAMiller
Right. She only speaks for the Administration in this matter. Doesn't know anything, just talks. /sarcasm...
206 posted on 01/17/2004 3:57:08 PM PST by ninenot (So many cats, so few recipes)
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To: Marine Inspector
Thanks for pointing this out.>>>>>>>>

When I saw your post, I thought maybe I had misread on this 'so-called' law.

Leave it to those in DC, to 'pat themselves on the back' for passing ANOTHER law, complete with the usual LOOPHOLES.


Unfortunately, making the program mandatory, will not curtail illegal immigration.>>>>>>

We always hear that it's so hard to prosecute the employers, because 'some' forged papers are so good. *IF* gov't had made this law MANDATORY, wouldn't this give them a way to FINE the illegal employers ??

For GWB to sign this in 'voluntarily', just seems to me, that *no one* is too serious about catching the millions of employers who work these illegals & also avoid paying MILLIONS in state & federal taxes.
207 posted on 01/17/2004 4:18:13 PM PST by txdoda ("Navy-brat")
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To: Sabertooth
BUMP!
208 posted on 01/17/2004 4:19:10 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: ninenot
Tnaks ninenot
209 posted on 01/17/2004 4:26:47 PM PST by SAMWolf (I am Homer of Borg. Prepare to be... ooooohh, doughnuts!)
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To: Sabertooth
What is all this jive about 8-12 million being alot. It might be alot of people for Costa Rica but we have close to 300,000,000 folks in this country. It would be no problem at all to kick them out. We outnumber them at least 20:1.

Of course if they have cojones and our President don't then that - still means we outnumber them 20:1.

Now, if we don hav no cojones and dayhav big cojones den we are n deeep kaka.
210 posted on 01/17/2004 4:46:28 PM PST by TomasUSMC (from tomasUSMC FIGHT FOR THE LAND OF THE FREE AND HOME OF THE BRAVE)
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To: Southack
Hey Southie--I looked it up special, just for you. Let's start here:

SEC. 501. ACCESS TO CERTAIN BUSINESS RECORDS FOR FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE AND INTERNATIONAL TERRORISM INVESTIGATIONS.
`(a)(1) The Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation or a designee of the Director (whose rank shall be no lower than Assistant Special Agent in Charge) may make an application for an order requiring the production of any tangible things (including books, records, papers, documents, and other items) for an investigation to protect against international terrorism or clandestine intelligence activities, provided that such investigation of a United States person is not conducted solely upon the basis of activities protected by the first amendment to the Constitution.

`(2) An investigation conducted under this section shall--

`(A) be conducted under guidelines approved by the Attorney General under Executive Order 12333 (or a successor order); and
`(B) not be conducted of a United States person solely upon the basis of activities protected by the first amendment to the Constitution of the United States.
`(b) Each application under this section--

`(1) shall be made to--
`(A) a judge of the court established by section 103(a); or
`(B) a United States Magistrate Judge under chapter 43 of title 28, United States Code, who is publicly designated by the Chief Justice of the United States to have the power to hear applications and grant orders for the production of tangible things under this section on behalf of a judge of that court; and
`(2) shall specify that the records concerned are sought for an authorized investigation conducted in accordance with subsection (a)(2) to protect against international terrorism or clandestine intelligence activities.
`(c)(1) Upon an application made pursuant to this section, the judge shall enter an ex parte order as requested, or as modified, approving the release of records if the judge finds that the application meets the requirements of this section.

`(2) An order under this subsection shall not disclose that it is issued for purposes of an investigation described in subsection (a).

`(d) No person shall disclose to any other person (other than those persons necessary to produce the tangible things under this section) that the Federal Bureau of Investigation has sought or obtained tangible things under this section.

`(e) A person who, in good faith, produces tangible things under an order pursuant to this section shall not be liable to any other person for such production. Such production shall not be deemed to constitute a waiver of any privilege in any other proceeding or context.


Pay PARTICULAR ATTENTION to 501(c)(1,2, and 3).

This section allows a deputy SAC to request warrant for search of financial transactions, etc., etc., and gags the (financial institution, e.g.) about such requests as well as executed warrants on Suspect A's accounts.

Under THIS Section:

SEC. 213. AUTHORITY FOR DELAYING NOTICE OF THE EXECUTION OF A WARRANT.
Section 3103a of title 18, United States Code, is amended--

(1) by inserting `(a) IN GENERAL- ' before `In addition'; and
(2) by adding at the end the following:
`(b) DELAY- With respect to the issuance of any warrant or court order under this section, or any other rule of law, to search for and seize any property or material that constitutes evidence of a criminal offense in violation of the laws of the United States, any notice required, or that may be required, to be given may be delayed if--

`(1) the court finds reasonable cause to believe that providing immediate notification of the execution of the warrant may have an adverse result (as defined in section 2705);
`(2) the warrant prohibits the seizure of any tangible property, any wire or electronic communication (as defined in section 2510), or, except as expressly provided in chapter 121, any stored wire or electronic information, except where the court finds reasonable necessity for the seizure; and
`(3) the warrant provides for the giving of such notice within a reasonable period of its execution, which period may thereafter be extended by the court for good cause shown.'.
(also known as Sneak and Peek), the Feds are authorized to search property and records WHILE DELAYING NOTIFICATION to the individual whose property is being searched.

At one time, the Fourth Amendment prohibited this.

Further, the FBI has now stretched the meaning of 501 (IIRC) to include such "terrorist" activity as mob money-laundering and tax inquiries.

Hmmmmm.

Frankly, I'm not all that worried about Ashcroft & Co. But I am VERY worried about the HRC Administration , which should take office in 2009.
211 posted on 01/17/2004 5:16:32 PM PST by ninenot (So many cats, so few recipes)
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To: txdoda
*IF* gov't had made this law MANDATORY, wouldn't this give them a way to FINE the illegal employers ??

Unfortunately no. Even if the program is mandatory, the law is the same and LEO's will still have a hard time prosecuting employers. Employers are not document fraud experts and the court precedents already set reinforce this.

Marine Inspector

212 posted on 01/17/2004 5:33:54 PM PST by Marine Inspector (TANCREDO 2004)
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To: Sabertooth
Bump.
213 posted on 01/17/2004 5:46:28 PM PST by Missouri
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To: Marine Inspector
Employers are not document fraud experts and the court precedents already set reinforce this. >>>>>>

I'm just saying *if* this law read employers MUST verify SS # (at time of hiring), anytime illegals were found working with false SS#'s, then the employer could be fined.

Really no 'documents' to check here...... ONLY that the SS # matches the name/dob in the SS database.
214 posted on 01/17/2004 5:47:21 PM PST by txdoda ("Navy-brat")
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To: diotima
And if we can make them go home if they don't get a renewal of their blue card, THEN WHY CAN'T WE JUST MAKE THEM GO HOME NOW?

Good question --- and the blue card will be good for 3 years --- as it is now many illegals actually do go home in between jobs --- it's too easy to be picked up and deported if you wander about looking for work ---- with a blue card, do they get deported between jobs or do they have a right to stay and opening seek employment?

215 posted on 01/17/2004 5:59:57 PM PST by FITZ
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To: Southack
After investing 3 years of their lives into Bush's new plan, few illegals will be willing to risk losing it all.

I could possibly see a guest worker program if it's actually proved that we need agricultural workers ---- but those jobs are very seasonal --- for example here where I live there is no farm work because it's winter. I could see busing or flying work crews up for the harvest and then busing or flying them back when harvest is done. That way they keep their family ties and lives in Mexico --- and as long as the families stay there, they continue to be that government's responsibility to educate and provide health care --- otherwise they become ours --- and we can't afford it.

216 posted on 01/17/2004 6:03:12 PM PST by FITZ
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To: Southack
Bush's plan also requires that they all go home voluntarily after three years

I think illegals are no different than many of us in that after 3 years of living in a place and having a job, they will adjust to their new surroundings and not want to go back ---especially because conditions in Mexico are worsening. How many of us have moved to a place or job and first said it was just temporary --- but even after a few months began to settle in and 10 years later are still there. 3 years isn't really temporary --- a few months might be and still provide stability for Mexico because that's where they would primarily live and build up.

217 posted on 01/17/2004 6:07:48 PM PST by FITZ
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To: Kevin Curry
"Yours and Bush's 'benign plantation' image which posits the creation of a docmented underclass of swarthy folk imported to clean the nation's toilets is as racist an image as can be imagined. Why do you wallow in it?" -- Kevin Curry to Southack

Bases loaded homerun, KC.

--Boot Hill

218 posted on 01/17/2004 6:08:19 PM PST by Boot Hill (Hang 'em high)
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To: Sabertooth
Bttt. Nice posting.
219 posted on 01/17/2004 6:11:41 PM PST by Beck_isright (After 8 years of Caligula, we elected Nero.)
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To: Sabertooth
I agree with most of your comments regarding Bush. during the Republican primary I voted for Alan Keyes, and I'm more convinced than ever that Keyes was the best choice. I knew that Bush was not principled enough on most the issues that matter most to me, except for issues like national defense and tax cuts. He's excellent on those.
220 posted on 01/17/2004 6:18:26 PM PST by tame (Are you willing to do for the truth what leftists are willing to do for a lie?)
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