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But can't we at least admit the ideas and decisions that are just plain bad are bad without drinking the Kool-Aid and accusing us that point them out of wanting Dean or a Rat to win?

There is nothing wrong with a good debate and a good discussion

But this whole, I'm gonna vote for a Dem is ridiculous, I'm gonna show them .. is foolish

Voting for a dem will get this country more screwed then the 8 year nightmare that Clinton gave us

Yes, I agree and wish that Bush would do more things .. but I also have to say that for being in office only 3 yrs., he has done a lot of good things for this country

He is not as bad as some here would claim

We agree. I'd never vote for a Dem. But it's getting harder and harder to tell the two parties apart and you KNOW I know the difference.

Basically, I'm tired of the GOP not standing up for their principles and pushing their conservative ideas. The vast majority usually support those ideas, ala the Contract With America, in large numbers but they cave in to Congressional games.

It's time the GOP treat the Democrats for what they are...the MINORITY! They should be treated no better or worse than they treated Republicans over the previous 45 years they were in charge. Most of the time ignoring they even existed and not letting them into meeting they had a right to be in.

Arrogance? You bet...and payback is He!!

They don't even know what to debate. Is it that illegal immigration is bad? If so, then everyone including Bush believes illegal immigration is bad. Is it that illegal immigration is a strain on social services? If so then everyone, including Bush believes that illegal immigration is a strain on social services. Is it that the problem must be addressed? Then everyone including Bush believes it is a big problem and must be addressed. The one debate I have not seen though is a debate on the proposal itself. They will not even brook the notion that it is a good faith effort to address all of the things we all agree on. No, the moment the speech was complete the "debate" went directly to a pent up "dump Bush" movement. The immigration issue has been revealed as a simple stalking horse used to justify the Freerepublic history of the "anybody but Bush" clack that has been raging on and off for 4 years. This is not an honest attempt at using FR to influence policy it is a crass effort to advance a hard-core agenda to break up the GOP.