Iraq Is Safer Than Chicago

www.countypressonline.com ^ | 1/13/04 | William W. Lawrence

[Temple Owl]

There were 347 murder victims in Philadelphia last year. That's not as bad as Chicago which is a real quagmire. The Windy City finished 2003 with 599 homicides.

There were 327 GIs killed by terrorists in Iraq in 2003. Maybe our GIs should start policing our big cities.

***

Conservative Judge Robert H. Bork has endorsed U.S. Rep. Pat Toomey who is campaigning against liberal Arlen Specter in the April 27 primary election. If Specter is re-elected, he will probably chair the Senate Judiciary Committee and have a powerful say on the kind of judges we get.

Judge Bork agrees with me that such power could spell disaster. I am voting for Pat Toomey and I hope I can persuade you to do the same.

[Temple Owl]

Vote Toomey

[Temple Owl]

ping

[Tribune7]

ping

[proudpapa]

I've heard that statistically someone is safer going to Iraq than commercial fishing.

However, someone is definitely safer living in Chicago than Iraq, or Gary, Indiana

[Atlas Sneezed]

Never mind that there are 20 times as many people in Chicago than soldiers in Iraq.

Nor that the Iraq totals exclude the bulk of the population.

Junk stats help no one.

[proudpapa]

I've heard that statistically someone is safer going to Iraq than commercial fishing.

However, someone is definitely safer living in Chicago than Iraq, or Gary, Indiana

[RonF]

As a Chicago resident, I found the headline interesting. But in reading the body of the story, apparently the author doesn't think that Iraqis killing Iraqis counts as murder, counting only the American body count. Iraqis are people too, you know, and the vast majority of them (according to posts on FR, anyway) favor us being there and want us to succeed. Let me give you a hint; their measure of success is not reducing the American body count.

[Captain Kirk]

This type of statistical argument is an insult to members of the American military.

There is a world of differene in my view between the death of a gangbanger in Chicago killed in a turf battle and a brave American soldier who is killed in Iraq. To try to put them on the same plane is simply wrong.

[mattdono]

There were 347 murder victims in Philadelphia last year. That's not as bad as Chicago which is a real quagmire. The Windy City finished 2003 with 599 homicides.

There were 327 GIs killed by terrorists in Iraq in 2003. Maybe our GIs should start policing our big cities.

Well, I am not sure that the comparison is apples-to-apples, but it is important to keep things in perspective. As far as military conflicts go, these casualties are very low. That doesn't, for a moment, take away the pain of losing a loved one or the sadness that those fallen soldiers countrymen should (and at least in onservative ranks DO) feel.

However, it should be a dose of perspective to help the hyperbolic reporting and editorial commentary that seeps from the lame stream press.

Furthermore, most of these liberal editorialists are simply using these soldiers deaths for political fodder against a man (and really a country) that they despise.

This is the sickest form of humanity that I can think of. It simply desicrates the graves of those who gave their lives for the freedom that each of us (maybe especially those in the press) enjoy every FRIGGIN' day of our lives.

These men and women LIVE and DIE with honor. They do a job that no lily-livered, sissy editorialist could ever contemplate, much less accomplish.

So, reminding the idiots in the press that violence happens everywhere; it is part of the REAL state of man. Of course, one of the reasons why they write from the perspective that they do is because they live in an abstract, unrealistic world. If they would simply acknowledge facts --the world is a dangerous place, socialism/communism doesn't work, the Hollywood elites are idiots, America is actually a GREAT country, etc., they might understand how to report with perspective.

</soapbox>

[proudpapa]

As a former resident of the windy city I would concur. However when you live in Chicago it seems like most of the stories involving gangbangers who can't shot straight and end up hitting the cute little girl who is innocently jumping rope. Or a stray bullet that crashes thru someones livingroom and nails them as they watch TV.


A lot of people feel that the gangbangers should be offered free gun training so that they can accurately kill other bangers versus innocent bystanders.

[Tribune7]

You guys break me up.

Someone points out that there are more Americans being killed in American cities than in Iraq -- which is a real nice way of pointing out the absurdity of the left's argument about quagmires and such -- and you start worrying about the poor Iraqis or perceive it as an insult to the American soldier.

The comment is not an insult to the American soldier and the presence of American soldiers in Iraq is likely causing the mortality rate for not-so-poor Iraqis to be much higher than Chicago gangbangers.

Do you think it an insult to the U.S. soldier to point out that 10 times as many Americans died in combat on Sept. 11, 2001 as in combat in Iraq last year?

[RonF]

No, I think that it's an insult to Iraqis to claim that an American would say that Bagdad is supposedly safer than Chicago because fewer Americans are dying per year in Baghdad. I doubt that Iraqis would agree with either the analysis or the conclusion, and that it's disrespectful to them. And I do respect Iraqis. I'm glad we're trying to help them progress to democracy, I think that's what they want, and I pray that we all succeed. Attitudes like the author of that article don't help.

[Tribune7]

No, I think that it's an insult to Iraqis to claim that an American would say that Bagdad is supposedly safer than Chicago because fewer Americans are dying per year in Baghdad.

I think you are reading something into that's not there. Remember, the debate is not that Iraqis have somehow less worth than us.

It's whether the cost to us -- especially in American lives -- is worth it for our security and, ultimately, for the Iraqis.

Certain Dems and Media types are implying we are in a quagmire, and we should pull out. Frankly, I think that would insult the sacrfices that have been made.

[kevao]

Save your strength, Trib. Apparently some of the simplest concepts are beyond the grasp of the average FReeper. Talk about overanalyzing!

[Tribune7]

:-)

[Captain Kirk]

Yes, and even more people died in World War II. The Iraqis did not attack on 9-11 (hence I supported the Afghan war) so your point in bringing up for the war in Iraq is....well....pointless.

[CholeraJoe]

I just spent 3 days in Chicago and must admit I feel much safer than I would have in Baghdad or the Sunni Triangle. Of course, I used to work in New Orleans when it was the murder capitol of the nation.

[Your Nightmare]

Let's see, there are 1,517,550 people in Philadelphia and there were 347 murders. That's 1 murder for every 4,373 people or .23 murders per 1,000 people.

There are 130,000 soldiers in Iraq and there were 327 deaths. That's 1 death for every 397 soldiers or 2.52 deaths for every 1,000 soldier.

A soldier in Iraq is over 10 times more likely to die than a citizen of Philadelphia is. Iraq is NOT safer than Philadelphia.

[Your Nightmare]

Sorry, the article was confusing and I did the stats for Philadelphia and not for Chicago. But it turns out Chicago is even safer than Philly (so much for brotherly love).

There are 2,896,016 people in Chicago and there were 599 murders. That's 1 murder for every 4,835 people or 0.21 murders per 1,000 people.

A soldier in Iraq is over 12 times more likely to die than a citizen of Chicago is. Iraq is NOT safer than Chicago. Or Philly

[Tribune7]

I wouldn't be surprised if there were some neighborhoods of Iraq that were safer than some neighborhoods of Philly.