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Mark Steyn: The Love That Doesn't Like You Speaking Its Name
The Atlantic Monthly ^
| December 2003
| Mark Steyn
Posted on 01/13/2004 2:37:26 PM PST by quidnunc
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To: liberallarry
So Jews shouldn't listen to Wagner.
Nazis shouldn't appreciate modern painters.
Shakespeare should be bowdlerized for prigs.
Beds and tables should wear skirts to hide their legs.
Amish shouldn't dance because it's sinful.
Etc, etc, etc...For the record, your argument would be more effective if you used Carl Orff in place of Richard Wagner.
Dancing is simply a pointless waste of time and energy, since you were obviously seeking out my expertise.
To: liberallarry
Mussolini (sp) made the trains run on time. You think God appreciates that talent?
102
posted on
01/15/2004 12:28:27 PM PST
by
7thson
(I think it takes a big dog to weigh a 100 pounds.)
To: CyberCowboy777; liberallarry
Let me try to expand: The artists' professed politics are part of the art. Art exists in the real world and so the performance art that the performer performs in the media is part of the art itself.
You cannot listen to Madonna's "music" without including the baggage of her various media stunts. It's all part of the performance.
Further, there is very little high art anymore. Anything resembling high art is thoroughly corrupted by the most banal political view these days, not even high-level intellectual ideology.
To: quidnunc
Wow. Another fantastic Steyn piece.
A great point, one never hears from Hollywood:
the fact that Hollywoods belief in its own heroism derives from a moment of colossal Hollywood cowardice any obstacle. The blacklist victims werent blacklisted by the government but by the studios Warner Brothers, Paramount, Disney the same folks who run Hollywood today.
This is the point that the liberals in Hollywood conveniently fail to ever mention. The United States government NEVER blacklisted ANYONE.
To: AmishDude
He was a great singer. So what? Every generation produces at least a half-dozen Paul Robesons. Gee what an enormous number...I can hardly imagine it.
So we should ignore him because of that. How many evil men does each generation produce? Maybe we should ignore them also?
He's only on your list because of his defense of the Gulag.
So you claim to be a mind-reader? There a talent I can safely ignore.
To: AmishDude
For the record, your argument would be more effective if you used Carl Orff in place of Richard Wagner I chose Wagner because his music was banned in Israel...until musicians realized how foolish that was.
Dancing is simply a pointless waste of time and energy, since you were obviously seeking out my expertise
On this I yield to superior wisdom. :)
To: 7thson
Mussolini (sp) made the trains run on time. You think God appreciates that talent? I don't know about God but I do. You mean you don't?
To: AmishDude
The artists' professed politics are part of the art Sssstttreetchhhhh...........
To: AmishDude
Further, there is very little high art anymore Idiotic beyond belief. You can find exression of such in every art form.
To: liberallarry
I DON'T listen to Wagner. Wagner can shove it.
To: liberallarry
> He was a great singer. So what? Every generation produces at least a half-dozen Paul Robesons.
Gee what an enormous number...I can hardly imagine it.I should have added "...in New Jersey alone." Do search on the Rutgers website for "Paul Robeson".
So we should ignore him because of that. How many evil men does each generation produce? Maybe we should ignore them also?
As a mathematician, I have high standards for who makes it into the history books. The fact is, P.R. does not "rise to the level" of getting any attention paid to him by history -- except for his politics.
So you claim to be a mind-reader? There a talent I can safely ignore.
Oh, to the contrary, the point I was making was not that you listed him because you liked his politics but that you had only heard of him because of his politics.
To: liberallarry
> The artists' professed politics are part of the art
Sssstttreetchhhhh...........Exhibit #1: Jonathan Swift
Exhibit #2: Miguel de Cervantes
To: liberallarry
I imagine the arts were operated under about the same conditions in Iraq under poor misunderstood Saddam whom they love so well. We know Uday would have the athletes flogged for losing, why not an execution if the dictator is disappointed in your show. I'm quite confident it happened.
113
posted on
01/15/2004 2:42:36 PM PST
by
johnb838
(Understand the root causes of AMERICAN anger.)
To: liberallarry
> Further, there is very little high art anymore
Idiotic beyond belief.Come on, elephant dung has become a standard part of the palette.
To: El Gran Salseron
"And yes, there were Communists in Hollywood the State Department,"
"Were?" How about "are?".....even more now than in the 40s/50s.
115
posted on
01/15/2004 2:45:10 PM PST
by
johnb838
(Understand the root causes of AMERICAN anger.)
To: AmishDude
They can be but they don't have to be...and even where they are one can sometimes appreciate the expression without condoning the message. I loved "Triumph of the Will".
To: AmishDude
To: AmishDude
Paul Robeson lived before my time - that's why I came to him in a round-about way. He was the Luciano Pavarotti of his generation - or close. Your "New Jersey" crack is utterly ridiculous...and ignorant.
To: liberallarry
Your "New Jersey" crack is utterly ridiculous...and ignorant.So Robeson was before your time. Guess what, so was Enrico Caruso. Caruso was far more important in a historical sense because he came at the time recorded music first emerged.
If you think anyone will discuss Pavarotti in 50 years, you're mistaken. Except, of course, to explain to future generations that he was like whomever is the popular singer of that day.
To: AmishDude
Your point is that Caruso's and Pavarotti's talents shouldn't be appreciated either? Well then, why bother about current politics or ideas? Vanity, vanity, all is vanity.
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