Cardinal favours condoms to stop AIDS (leading candidates to succeed Pope John Paul)

The Guardian via SMH ^ | January 14, 2004 | John Hooper in Rome and Andrew Osborn in Brussels

[dead]

A Belgian cardinal who is among the leading candidates to succeed Pope John Paul has broken the Catholic church's taboo on the use of condoms, declaring that, in certain circumstances, they should be used to prevent the spread of AIDS.

Godfried Danneels was careful to say he preferred abstinence as a means of prevention, but added that if someone who was HIV-positive did have sex, failing to use a condom would break the sixth commandment, thou shalt not kill.

His comments are a further sign that the ailing Pope may be losing some grip on the more liberal wing of his immense church. Shortly after being named a "prince of the church" last September, Cardinal Keith O'Brien, of Scotland, said the ban on contraception should be debated, along with such issues as priestly celibacy and homosexual clergy.

In an interview with the Dutch Catholic broadcaster RKK, Cardinal Danneels said: "When someone is HIV-positive and his partner says, 'I want to have sexual relations with you', he doesn't have to do that . . . But when he does, he has to use a condom."

He added: "This comes down to protecting yourself in a preventive manner against a disease or death. [It] cannot be entirely morally judged in the same manner as a pure method of birth control."

The cardinal's argument emphasises the importance of human life, the very factor that Pope John Paul has long evinced as justification for a ban on all forms of contraception.

The Catholic church teaches that abstinence, including between married couples, is the only morally acceptable way to prevent the spread of AIDS.

Cardinal Danneels's views clash with those aired last year by Cardinal Alfonso Lopez Trujillo, the Vatican's top adviser on family questions. The Colombian cardinal claimed that condoms could not halt HIV because it was small enough to pass through them. He said relying on them to prevent infection was like "betting on your own death".

Those remarks were condemned by, among others, the World Health Organisation, which said condoms reduced the risk of infection by 90 per cent.

In 2000, Cardinal Danneels caused consternation in the Vatican by suggesting that popes should not remain in office until they died but have limited terms.

Cardinal Danneels, 70, and Archbishop of Brussels and Mechelen,

has also called for flexibility and leniency for Catholics who divorce and then remarry without obtaining a church-sanctioned annulment, and has said he advocates women playing a larger role in the church.

[lrslattery]

I'm truly sorry to hear that. I have only one daughter who is now 18 and I worry about what could happen to her when she is away from home. My boys can take care of themselves, but for some reason, I am overly protective of my daughter.

Reprobates who engage in violent acts of that nature have forfeited their right to life, IMHO.

[biblewonk]

Oh, I just thought it was talk down to people like a hateful heathen day again here on the FR.

[lrslattery]

but how does this fit into some people's idea for amchurch?

It's really difficult to say. The problem I see with it is this: If religious sisters in Africa or other places are subjected to the possibility of rape and they can, therefore, keep condoms - just in case, then that logic may be used next by women who work in, say, downtown or crime-ridden areas. Again just in case.

But as I said, I do not have my reference material handy at the moment but will be happy to expound on it later this evening.

[heyheyhey]

You wouldn't be so agitated, if you read the article and the responses in this thread before posting.

The Belgian cardinal clearly stands in opposition to "Rome" (the unchangeable moral teachings of the Roman Catholic Church). He acts as a heathen by misrepresenting the Gospel.

[biblewonk]

The Belgian cardinal clearly stands in opposition to "Rome" (the unchangeable moral teachings of the Roman Catholic Church). He acts as a heathen by misrepresenting the Gospel.

I'm always agitated where the RCC is concerned but the sentence I quoted showed that this is/was a cardinal in high standing.

[heyheyhey]

Let me share a secret with you... this cardinal has no chance to become the head dude in charge of the Roman Catholic Church.
Don't ask how I know it. I just do :)

[verity]

I am not!

Have an incomparable day!

[ninenot]

Regrettably, my training in moral theo, (although now a bit foggy in memory and occasionally in need of polishing) tells me that the 9mm solution is NOT appropriate for this beast.

Having said that, I wonder if fantasizing about that could be a matter for Confession?

BTW, we have 7 daughters. All have been trained on use of pistols, but none carry (Wisconsin forbids that...) and at about $350./pop plus ammo, it's an investment, not an expense.

[biblewonk]

Oh boy, I promise not to tell.

[ninenot]

The sentence you quoted was an editorial placed in "news" story. You might have seen this tactic before, e.g., referring to Focus on the Family as an 'extremist' conservative group.

Danneels is not destined for a big white hat in Rome. Although it is not fair to speculate on his destiny, it may just be a warm place, staffed by funny-looking types with hooves.

[biblewonk]

Ultimately, I'm very eager to see who becomes the next pope.

[lrslattery]

Not to get off-topic but I noticed that your tagline is:
(I must try to answer all bible questions.)

I am in need of a one word answer to this question I was asked recently, which is, "What is the pillar and bulwark of truth?"

Can you help me out with this? Thanks much!

[heyheyhey]

For us, Catholics, the Pope is the Vicar of Christ on earth, the Peter ("Tu es Petrus - You are Peter"), and the rock who holds "the keys of the Kingdom." The Pope is one who is entrusted with feeding and shepherding Christ's flock.

Of all the 12 Apostles, Judas wouldn't be suited for such position.

[biblewonk]

I am in need of a one word answer to this question I was asked recently, which is, "What is the pillar and bulwark of truth?"

I've never seen a single word answer to that question only multiple word answers in 1 Tim3:15.

[biblewonk]

For us, Catholics, the Pope is the Vicar of Christ on earth, the Peter ("Tu es Petrus - You are Peter"), and the rock who holds "the keys of the Kingdom." The Pope is one who is entrusted with feeding and shepherding Christ's flock.

I know and it breaks my heart that you interpret it that way.

[lrslattery]

Regrettably, my training in moral theo, (although now a bit foggy in memory and occasionally in need of polishing) tells me that the 9mm solution is NOT appropriate for this beast.

Having said that, I wonder if fantasizing about that could be a matter for Confession?

I have often wondered about this as well, especially when another news report comes out about things such as this. I cannot express the grief and pain I feel for the parents & loved ones who children are subjected to the horrific crimes we hear about these days.

My anger toward the perpetrators of these crimes, at times, maybe even most of the time, may be sinful. But then again, I wish them immediate justice and retribution and not vindictiveness. With this in mind, one moves farther from away from the sinful inclinations, I think.

BTW, Missouri's CCW is on hold due to judicial intervention for the time being (after the governor's veto was ovverridden). Maybe Wisconsin voters will soon join the ranks of those states now taking advantage of the 2nd amendment.

[lrslattery]

Great article!

Dr. Hippler has several good articles on line at the Diocese of LaCrosse website. It worth the time to check them out.

[Polycarp IV]

CA Fam Assoc aside, the 9mm is just fine for the purposes.

(Confession: I carry my .380 every day while my 9mm and .45 are only carried on occasion ;-)

[Polycarp IV]

I am in need of a one word answer to this question I was asked recently, which is, "What is the pillar and bulwark of truth?"

Can you help me out with this? Thanks much!

For my part, I have yet to see the word "Trinity" in Scripture. Must be a concept made up out of whole cloth by the early Church ;-) Oh yeah, I haven't found the words "sola scriptura" yet either. I'll keep looking, it MUST be in there, right?

[Polycarp IV]

I have a daughter who was raped and this is a little too close to the bone for rational discussion on my part.

There are no words to describe how frustrating, how angry such a situation makes a parent. I have not experienced this, and by God's Grace, never will. But I have worked a lot with church victims' parents now, and victims themselves, and the story is seen in their eyes.