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To: carlo3b
I'm not surprised that your arguments consist of anecdotal and somewhat hysterical appeals to the emotions, since such guilt-inducing and inflammatory arguments characterize not just private debate on this subject, but also our government's lack of coherent immigration policy and/or enforcement in general.

Rather than repeated rants, why not invest some time in reading readily-available essays and arguments such as this or this or this. A simple google search will find many more articles, pro and con. Although many rely, as you do, on unsubstantiated and unsourced claims, there is much research that both avoids the hysterical and suggests reasoned, incremental solutions that have not been part of national strategy for decades, but would require some political backbone (noticeably lacking at present) to implement.

Try using facts -- not emotions -- as a basis for your arguments.

221 posted on 01/12/2004 10:49:04 AM PST by browardchad
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To: browardchad
Try using facts -- not emotions -- as a basis for your arguments.

WOW.. whew.. I'm glad you got that off your chest.. Now lets get back to the issue!.. 

Try this for facts.. I grew up in a ghetto..  I owned and operated a rather high caliber chain of Hotels, Restaurants, Racing farms and Cruise ships. In that life I employed thousands of people in all social and economic strata.

Lets see if this can pi$$ you off even more, I'd grab the kleenex if I were you  ...

From my emotional and heart wrenching ramblings of my humble beginnings, you now know I didn't start at that those lofty peaks, so I have a fairly clear memory of what it was like be poor, and not poor. I have a limited secondary education, consequently, I had to start at the bottom.. So, can we at least say I qualify as " informed".. are you tracking me my FRiend?

I had to actually hire people, hundreds of them at the level that ""these"" immigrants find themselves, and experience, not surmise, guess, presume, pretend, suppose, think, hypothesize, or theorize what the labor market is like. Contrary to popular accusations that are being thrown about as freely as your uninformed remarks to me.. but I digress.. the all of my applicants had to have, and did have papers, or documents declaring their personal legitimacy to hold a job in the USA. To question those papers would likely end up in court and have pickets marching at my front door.

I instituted a "Lets Get Back to Work, Mom" program at the welfare offices in Houston, with a large turnout, but a flop in it's results. I regularly held open Job Fairs, at the various State Employment sponsored events, high schools, colleges, community centers and churches, or with private head hunters. I gave seminars, lectures, speeches, and TV and radio recruitment commercials extolling the virtues of gainful employment.. i.e.: working..  that seldomed worked...

The State Unemployment Commission's vary thoughout the US but by and large (save California, sorry, it may have changed now), the folks getting checks were required to record any attempt at seeking a job. This they did with gusto.. however when it came to showing up for work, it was a disaster.. the range of excuses were funny, if it wasn't so sad!  Many of our fellow homegrown Americans were crafty at the game, and could rival a legal scholar at the labor laws, the insurance limits, recent harassment legislation, and employment clauses, not to speak of settlement negotiations. The 4th largest line item on our Profit and Loss statement was legal expenses..

Did you know that in most states working just 26 weeks a year may get you as much as 2 years unemployment compensation checks?  Too many of your fellow Americans, are so predictable that you can start recruiting a vacancy at a job 2 weeks before the 26th week anniversary date, and have an attorney and an ambulance standing by for the pending accident?

Now lets talk about "ILLEGALS", I had no real way of knowing "formally" if the applicants were presenting us with the real thing, documents.. remember this was back in the 60's, 70's, and early 80's. (I retired from an active daily role in 78, but I had to monitor, some of my ex wife's (she got the assets in the divorce, I got the kids.. hehehehe) and my kid's holdings clear into the 90's). Now I've told you already that I knew that I hired Illegals already, and I did know, because in the mid 80's President Reagan offered a amnesty program for sponsored aliens and I found out then, but I already felt that I knew some of the old timers (with me 10-17 years) were living a lie on paper.

All of those years they paid, as did I, a contribution to a Social Security number that belonged to another person. They lost all of that money, however I have no way of knowing if that other person existed or not or if they are receiving SS now. These folks were, for the most part.. hard working, loyal, dependable, and smart. They moved up the career ladder, and many eventually opened their own restaurants or small businesses, some with my down payment.

I provided them with medical and eye, and a limited dental insurance programs. I loved these people because when things were hard they were there, and when the good times rolled they got more than their rewards.. I am still in contact with many of my friends to this day and will not stop telling people about my experiences because someone else had a different opinion.. any questions? theres more but who cares.. wake up, I'm finished.. for now!

233 posted on 01/12/2004 12:41:14 PM PST by carlo3b (http://www.CookingWithCarlo.com)
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