What ever happened to "Give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses longing to be free..."

CookingWithCarlo.com ^ | 01/11/2004 | Carlo3b Dad, Chef, Author

[kevao]

There really isn't any way that we are going to send the masses of workers back to wherever they came from.

That's a question I have about Bush's amnesty proposal. What will we do about all the illegals who choose not to register or who come here after the amnesty is implemented?

Apparently nothing will/can be done. Without an effective enforcement mechanism, the amnesty is doomed to be a fiasco.

[carlo3b]

So your point is that it is easier to hire illegals. (I bet it's cheaper too.)

I'm glad you are paying attention, even if you can't or won't read what I said in post #233, it's OK it wasn't private, you are allowed to read it and educate yourself.. I may have to leave before you are finished picking it apart for grammatical and formating reasons to detract from the issue .. Emma Lazarus and her reasons for writing ""The New Colossus".. Pleaseeeeee.. :)

[Polybius]

Unless you are a native Indian,we are all descendents of immigrants or immigrants.

Which is why the Indians resisted our ancestors with armed force and, when the resistance failed, the Indian way of life was destroyed.

In my own ancestral past:

When the Romans arrived in northewest Spain, our Celtic way of life was destroyed.

When the Visigothic barbarians arrived in Spain, our Roman way of life was destroyed.

When the Muslims arrived in Spain, our Christian way of life was almost destroyed.

When we re-conquered Spain, the Muslim way of life in Spain was destroyed.

When we landed in the New World, the Indian way of life was destroyed.

Uncontrolled immigration has often been a fact of life throughout history.......right before the host society is destroyed.

[Hon]

"So your point is that it is easier to hire illegals. (I bet it's cheaper too.)"

I'm glad you are paying attention

It would seem hat you would prefer that people not pay attention.

Sorry that I don't agree that public policy should be based upon your fascinating personal experiences and heroic triumphs.

Whenever you accidentally veer into claims that can be verified (such as why Lazurus wrote her sonnet or your "rule of thumb" claim) you have been shown to be wide of the mark. Why should we trust anything you say?

Especially when you tell us you initiated programs at the Houston Welfare office, ran TV and radio ads and used headhunters to find busboys.

You sound like you have quite an active imagination. But not too firm a grasp on reality.

[browardchad]

I really don't care about your personal anecdotal experiences. I have no way of verifying them, and even if I could, they are not germain to the argument of what is best for this country. They are your personal experiences as filtered through your unique perspective of the world -- save them for your autobiography, a soap opera episode, or therapy sessions.

Although you seem to have a marked aversion for facts, here's another one you can ignore: Emma Lazarus was a Socialist.

[carlo3b]

I'm not sure using headhunters is the best way to recruit busboys and waiters.

Here is the problem with you disruptor's, you don't make it hard at all ..taking the fun out of this.. Geeeze

MANPOWER inc, Transpersonal, Laborpool Services, and now hundreds of small employment services, operating everywhere.. But I was hiring all levels of skill I wasn't exactly operating a local pizzeria..

[carlo3b]

Geeeeze hahahahah .. Emma Lazarus again... I'm winning this fight.. BIG

[Hon]

"Although you seem to have a marked aversion for facts, here's another one you can ignore: Emma Lazarus was a Socialist."

I don't know if that is an actual fact. She certainly was a liberal in the old-fashioned sense of the word. (Her father was a very rich sugar dealer. They had a house in Newport. She had private tutors, etc.)

But she was foremost a Zionist even before Zionism was invented. She discovered her Jewish roots and took a very active interest in anti-Semtism and the resulting pogroms in Europe and Russia.

Most of her social work (visiting immigrants, etc.) and her writings concerned persecuted Jews who she felt needed and deserved asylum and ultimately a homeland.

[carlo3b]

What will we do about all the illegals who choose not to register or who come here after the amnesty is implemented?

Thats the million dollar question.. You know that law that is enacted will have requirements in it, but will states like California enforce them.. or do we need another mass hiring of Feds to take over.. Thats the problem..that will start a whole new round of complaints..

[Hon]

"Geeeeze hahahahah .. Emma Lazarus again..."

I could've sworn you brought her up.


(Checking the title of this thread and the first post begetting it.)


Yup! You based your "argument" on an excerpt from one of her poems (and you and your family's fascinating history).

[Hon]

"In the 1880s, Emma Lazarus became increasingly convinced that "the time has come for actions rather than words." She visited Russian refugees housed on Ward's Island, and helped at the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society. Moved by the exiles' struggles, she was also aware of how little she had in common with them. While working among Russian immigrants, she would sometimes joke, "What would my society friends say if they saw me here?"

Lazarus' ideas on the importance of manual labor helped lead to the establishment of the Hebrew Technical Institute. These views also betrayed an upper class tint as she spoke of "the wretched quality of work performed by the vast majority of American mechanics and domestic servants."

In 1883, Lazarus also formed the Society for the Improvement and Colonization of East European Jews. On her 1883 European trip she met with Jewish philanthropists like Claude Montefiore to gather support. However, much to her disappointment, the organization collapsed in 1884.

Emma Lazarus' advocacy included secular causes as well as Jewish ones. She corresponded with the activist Henry George, and published a sonnet in honor of his book, Progress and Poverty. She also wrote of her discussions with William Morris in an article in Century. While sympathetic to Morris' socialist ideas, Lazarus felt his theories were not applicable to America where "the avenues to ease and competency broad and numerous.""

http://www.jwa.org/exhibits/wov/lazarus/el13.html

[kevao]

Thats the problem..that will start a whole new round of complaints..

No, what no enforcement will do is start a whole new round of illegal immigration. The illegals who register for program will become part of the formal economy. As such, they must be paid at least minimum wage and benefits.

Under those conditions, vast numbers of the newly documented illegals will be unable to find jobs, for their labor will be underpriced by people willing to work for less than minimum wage -- newly arriving illegals and those illegals prescient enough not to register for the amnesty.

Only a moron would price himself out of the illegal immigrant job market by registering for Bush's amnesty program.

[jellybean]

LOL! Sure you did.

I'm not sure using headhunters is the best way to recruit busboys and waiters.

There are many things I don't know about Carlo's background (he's done so much in his lifetime it would be hard to discover them all in the limited time (3 1/2 years) I've known him), but one thing I DO know is his integrity. If he says he's done something, you can bet your life on it being true!

[Hon]

You need to use more CAPs, the bold isn't quite enough to convince us of your reasoning.

BTW, I happen to agree with Lazarus about the plight of the Jews at the time (and subsequently and currently) and I have no problem whatsover in granting political amnesty.

I believe in legal immigration, within reason. I mostly believe in the rule of law.

I don't even opppose Bush's plan. I would like to hear more about it. I believe something must be done. Bush's plan could help restore the rule of law in this currently lawless situation.

I have mostly posted on this thread in response to your bogus claims and to suggest that public policy shouldn't be based on anecdotes and employers' desires for cheap and readily available labor.

[carlo3b]

As such, they must be paid at least minimum wage and benefitsAs such, they must be paid at least minimum wage and benefits>

Kev... whoa.. did you read #233 You have to obey the laws and pay minimum wages if you are any company that has deep pockets, the people that accept a lower wage is not who you have to worry about.. It's the Feds.. The Labor Board , and The Equal Opportunity Employment Act will crush you like a bug!

[kevao]

Kev... whoa.. did you read #233 You have to obey the laws and pay minimum wages if you are any company that has deep pockets, the people that accept a lower wage is not who you have to worry about.. It's the Feds.. The Labor Board , and The Equal Opportunity Employment Act will crush you like a bug!

LOL! Yeah, just like they do now. ROTFFL!!!

We're being told the amensty is "unavoidable" because it is "unrealistic" to enforce our immigration laws -- to many illegals, not enough resources.

At the same time, we're being told that AFTER the amnesty goes into effect, we will indeed enforce our immigration laws, by doing the kind of enforcement we don't have the resources to do -- which is why the amnesty is "unavoidable" in the first place....

LOL!!! The Feds, the Labor Board, the EOEA. Oh, ye suckers!!!

[carlo3b]

Lazarus to the rear, the Jews are being elbowed out for a new category .. Ta Da ..CAPS.. be careful, the Zionist won't like that.. I'm almost done..

Have you got anything, ANYTHING, more than Lazarus, Zionist, recruiters and CAPS for heaven sake? Apparently not.. It's been swell.. see ya HON.. I hope you are a girl disrupter, with a name like HON!

[carlo3b]

LOL!!! The Feds, the Labor Board, the EOEA. Oh, ye suckers!!!

Really? You are a out of the loop, and as I suspected..uninformed as much as all of the Bush Bashers are usually.. Did you read what the Labor Board did to Binion's Horseshoe Casino in Las Vegas yesterday? GONE Shazam!

[Hon]

You don't sound very stable. So far you have called me a homosexual, a disruptor (twice) and have implied that I am anti-Semitic.

All because I had the temerity to correct you on a few points (such as your foisting a feminist myth as fact) and to point out that you are basing your argument on a poem written by someone with a political agenda, your personal anecdotes, and your desire for cheap labor.

I also still don't believe the claims you made that I highlighted above. And you have posted nothing to make them seem more plausible.

Your name-calling and use of caps and bold don't do much to hide the fact that you are a lot of bluff and bluster with very little substance.