What ever happened to "Give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses longing to be free..."

CookingWithCarlo.com ^ | 01/11/2004 | Carlo3b Dad, Chef, Author

[browardchad]

I'm not surprised that your arguments consist of anecdotal and somewhat hysterical appeals to the emotions, since such guilt-inducing and inflammatory arguments characterize not just private debate on this subject, but also our government's lack of coherent immigration policy and/or enforcement in general.

Rather than repeated rants, why not invest some time in reading readily-available essays and arguments such as this or this or this. A simple google search will find many more articles, pro and con. Although many rely, as you do, on unsubstantiated and unsourced claims, there is much research that both avoids the hysterical and suggests reasoned, incremental solutions that have not been part of national strategy for decades, but would require some political backbone (noticeably lacking at present) to implement.

Try using facts -- not emotions -- as a basis for your arguments.

[carlo3b]

Not the same as with those from south of the border. Many still can't speak english and don't have any intentions of doing so. And their loyalty remains with Mexico, etc. No, it is not the same.

... sheeesh....""Many still can't speak English and don't have any intentions of doing so. And their loyalty remains with Mexico, etc."". . . Really? Just exactly how do you know this.. Are you a Mexican, living amongst the multitude? Perhaps you are married to a Mexican, with a huge family that refuses to speak English, living amongst the multitude of Mexicans who feel exactly the same?

Are you a Spanish teacher in the inner city, with an enrollment that refuses to learn or has no interest in learn any language because they long to be back in Mexico? Fascinating..

[dhs12345]

Pretty simple -- look at how many resist English only propositions and laws around the U.S.?

There is a huge movement against English only. Why?

And why do so many Hispanics (oh sorry, it is Latinos now) demand that Texas, Arizona, New Mexico and California be returned to Mexico, if they are loyal to the U.S. I hear this every Cinco De Mayo.

The sad truth: until they assimilate like my ancestors did, they will continue to be relegated to the low-end jobs. Which by the way, they don't do all that well at either.
We have stopped ordering special hamburgers from McDonalds. They rarely get the order right because they don't speak English very well.

[Hon]

You sure are full of yourself.

[Sloth]

Yes, my family crossed a border from Canada into the United States in the dead of night in hopes of securing a better life for their children.

If our entitlement system was the same today as it was when your ancestors came, I wouldn't have a problem with immigration.

[Hon]

Some background on Emma Lazarus and her reasons for writing ""The New Colossus":

"Emma Lazarus was born in 1849 in New York City, the fourth of seven children of Esther and Moses Lazarus. Her family were descendents of Sephardic Jews fleeing the Spanish Inquisition who arrived in America even before the American Revolution-her father could trace his ancestry back to the first twenty-three Jews who settled in New York in 1654. Her family was part of the rich society of uptown Manhattan that included elegant homes, private tutors, and literary salons. Emily received a private education that included exposure to classical literature, poetry, and romance languages. She loved reading and, as a teenager, began writing verse, first published by her family. Her poetry was good enough to attract the attention of Ralph Waldo Emerson, who encouraged her writing. In her writing career, Lazarus published numerous poems, essays, and letters, as well as translations of major collections of poems. She was an important figure in New York's elite literary circles, and corresponded with many important American writers and intellectuals of the time.

News from Russia about the vicious anti-semitic pogroms of 1881 and 1882 kindled an awakening of Lazarus' commitment to Judaism. When she first met escaping Eastern Europe refugees, she could hardly believe they were Jews. Poor, sick, and uneducated, these immigrants were very different from the upper class New York Jews in her social circle. She became particularly enraged at assimilated American Jews who seemed embarrassed by the unsophisticated Jewish refugees. At that time, many American Jews did not want to associate with these newcomers, because they were afraid that these "different Jews" would reflect badly on the status of their own Jewish community in the United States, and would compromise their success in assimilation into American culture.

Lazarus stopped writing poetry temporarily to assist the arriving Russian Jewish immigrants, often giving them money, food and clothing to help alleviate their poverty. She organized a project to train Jews in industrial trades, which later became the Hebrew Technical Institute. She attended rallies to raise money for Russian Jews and wrote about them in poems and essays. "Until we are all free, we are none of us free," she pointed out.

Subsequently, Emma Lazarus chose to identify herself as a Jewish American writer. She began to write passionate Jewish poems and essays in support of a Jewish homeland in Palestine, thirteen years before Theodore Herzl founded the Zionist movement. Her best work, a book entitled Songs of a Semite, consisted of Jewish themed poems and lyric drama that celebrated ancient and modern Jewish courage and advocated the idea of a Jewish nationality. She studied Hebrew and translated classic Hebrew poems of the great literary figures of Spain's golden age of Judaism, including Judah HaLevi and Solomin ibn Gabirol; many of her translations later were incorporated into standard prayer books. Her works regularly appeared in the Jewish press, including the weekly magazine, American Hebrew.

"The New Colossus," was written in 1883 for a fundraiser auction to build a pedestal for the Statue of Liberty. This sonnet was auctioned in a benefit sale for $21,500, a sum unheard-of for a short piece of poetry. In this verse, Lazarus contrasts the Statue of Liberty with the Greek Colossus of Rhodes, a venerable warrior. Instead, the guardian of America's gateway is a strong, but nuturing woman, the Mother of Exiles. Lazarus' vision of the United States as a haven for the refugees of Europe and Russia was the inspiration for the poem, in which America is depicted as the golden land of hope and opportunity for the oppressed.

Emma Lazarus died in 1887, 4 years after composing the sonnet, at the age of 38. In 1903, her poem was engraved on a metal plaque, and attached to the pedestal of the Statue of Liberty. Two of her life's dreams became reality in the next century: her American dream of the huddled masses of Jewish immigrants successfully integrating into American society and her Jewish dream of a Jewish homeland that would accept all persecuted Jews."

http://www.miriamscup.com/LazarusBiog.htm

[Hon]

"Her reasons were and are blatantly clear to many of us - ie, the degradation, bastardization, corruption and dilution of Christian society."

I wouldn't say that. But Lazarus was writing about people who were in a quite different situation from the illegal aliens in question today--apart from say, the Cubans.

Lazurus was writing about people (Russian Jews) who were being murdered and starved and raped simply for their religion (in pogroms).

Lazarus was taling about political asylum. I don't think many people object to that. We have a long tradition of that in this country.

[antaresequity]

Give us your poor, your tired, your legal, and your huddled masses longing to be free

[carlo3b]

Try using facts -- not emotions -- as a basis for your arguments.

WOW.. whew.. I'm glad you got that off your chest.. Now lets get back to the issue!.. 

Try this for facts.. I grew up in a ghetto..  I owned and operated a rather high caliber chain of Hotels, Restaurants, Racing farms and Cruise ships. In that life I employed thousands of people in all social and economic strata.

Lets see if this can pi$$ you off even more, I'd grab the kleenex if I were you  ...

From my emotional and heart wrenching ramblings of my humble beginnings, you now know I didn't start at that those lofty peaks, so I have a fairly clear memory of what it was like be poor, and not poor. I have a limited secondary education, consequently, I had to start at the bottom.. So, can we at least say I qualify as " informed".. are you tracking me my FRiend?

I had to actually hire people, hundreds of them at the level that ""these"" immigrants find themselves, and experience, not surmise, guess, presume, pretend, suppose, think, hypothesize, or theorize what the labor market is like. Contrary to popular accusations that are being thrown about as freely as your uninformed remarks to me.. but I digress.. the all of my applicants had to have, and did have papers, or documents declaring their personal legitimacy to hold a job in the USA. To question those papers would likely end up in court and have pickets marching at my front door.

I instituted a "Lets Get Back to Work, Mom" program at the welfare offices in Houston, with a large turnout, but a flop in it's results. I regularly held open Job Fairs, at the various State Employment sponsored events, high schools, colleges, community centers and churches, or with private head hunters. I gave seminars, lectures, speeches, and TV and radio recruitment commercials extolling the virtues of gainful employment.. i.e.: working..  that seldomed worked...

The State Unemployment Commission's vary thoughout the US but by and large (save California, sorry, it may have changed now), the folks getting checks were required to record any attempt at seeking a job. This they did with gusto.. however when it came to showing up for work, it was a disaster.. the range of excuses were funny, if it wasn't so sad!  Many of our fellow homegrown Americans were crafty at the game, and could rival a legal scholar at the labor laws, the insurance limits, recent harassment legislation, and employment clauses, not to speak of settlement negotiations. The 4th largest line item on our Profit and Loss statement was legal expenses..

Did you know that in most states working just 26 weeks a year may get you as much as 2 years unemployment compensation checks?  Too many of your fellow Americans, are so predictable that you can start recruiting a vacancy at a job 2 weeks before the 26th week anniversary date, and have an attorney and an ambulance standing by for the pending accident?

Now lets talk about "ILLEGALS", I had no real way of knowing "formally" if the applicants were presenting us with the real thing, documents.. remember this was back in the 60's, 70's, and early 80's. (I retired from an active daily role in 78, but I had to monitor, some of my ex wife's (she got the assets in the divorce, I got the kids.. hehehehe) and my kid's holdings clear into the 90's). Now I've told you already that I knew that I hired Illegals already, and I did know, because in the mid 80's President Reagan offered a amnesty program for sponsored aliens and I found out then, but I already felt that I knew some of the old timers (with me 10-17 years) were living a lie on paper.

All of those years they paid, as did I, a contribution to a Social Security number that belonged to another person. They lost all of that money, however I have no way of knowing if that other person existed or not or if they are receiving SS now. These folks were, for the most part.. hard working, loyal, dependable, and smart. They moved up the career ladder, and many eventually opened their own restaurants or small businesses, some with my down payment.

I provided them with medical and eye, and a limited dental insurance programs. I loved these people because when things were hard they were there, and when the good times rolled they got more than their rewards.. I am still in contact with many of my friends to this day and will not stop telling people about my experiences because someone else had a different opinion.. any questions? theres more but who cares.. wake up, I'm finished.. for now!

[carlo3b]

You sure are full of yourself.

..yes, I know... (that reassuring smile, deep sigh, and eyes closed).. :)

[carlo3b]

cute.. C+.. nice and brief but effective, however, a bit sophomoric.. but hey.. Thanks we'll mark you down as undecided.. :)

[antaresequity]

The more I think of this whole thing and the more I learn...the more I think we should round em up and ship them out...

And then start from scratch.

[carlo3b]

If our entitlement system was the same today as it was when your ancestors came, I wouldn't have a problem with immigration.

Won't get an argument out of me.. right on.. but it won't go away just because it's screwed up. Someone has to come up with a solution that begins to correct this problem, and it has to be federal to override the Liberal States giveaway programs and enticements.. Bush appears to be trying that.. developing.. :)

[Hon]

So your point is that it is easier to hire illegals. (I bet it's cheaper too.)

[carlo3b]

If only we could, thats an answer that won't happen and really can't. Just imagine the collapse of the industries, small and large that are employing these folks without anyone wanting to replace them. The stock market would plummet and prices would fly. Maybe we can start to faze it out, but I wouldn't bet on that no matter who is in power.

[Hon]

"I instituted a "Lets Get Back to Work, Mom" program at the welfare offices in Houston, with a large turnout, but a flop in it's results. I regularly held open Job Fairs, at the various State Employment sponsored events, high schools, colleges, community centers and churches, or with private head hunters. I gave seminars, lectures, speeches, and TV and radio recruitment commercials extolling the virtues of gainful employment.. i.e.: working.. that seldomed worked..."

LOL! Sure you did.

I'm not sure using headhunters is the best way to recruit busboys and waiters.