Turning Muslim in Texas

BBC TV Channel 4 web site ^ | Jan. 10, 2004 | BBC TV Channel 4

[Vigilanteman]

I have seen stats that say the LDS is the fastest growing religious group in the USA.

So have I. And Mormons won't try to kill you if you decide to be Catholic, Baptist or Lutheran again.

[montag813]

Eric was a Baptist preacher before he became a Muslim 14 years ago. Now he prays five times a day – even in the middle of watching a football game. His wife, Karen, also a convert, is covered from head to toe in the traditional Muslim burka. Islam, says Eric, ‘is everything I wanted Christianity to be’.

This is absolutely disgusting. White Southern converts to the cult of murder and evil. How repulsive.

[johnb838]

They may not kill you but I'm not sure they'll ever leave you alone... They may try to bore you to death.

[AAABEST]

It's not a religion, it's a backward, oppressive and dangerous political system.

Thanks for the offer to move to Saudi but I spent 7 months there a while back and have no desire to live with cave dwelling flat-earthers who don't bath or wipe their asses.

You talk about the first amendment as if we pay attention to our constitution anymore. If we're going to ignore it we might as well do so in a way which brings favor in God's eyes for a change.

We're probably not going to agree on much here, as I advocate restarting the LAST Crusade and finishing the job.

[eno_]

And some here we thought the term "Taliban Republican" was a baseless canard.

[AAABEST]

I'm not saying we should ban Islam

I am. Then again I'm not as easy going as you, and I never edit myself.

[BabsC]

how the Quran that exists today is different from the original manuscripts which are finally being studied in a critical manner.

But isn't that one of the big no-nos in Islam. To question anything in the koran?

[Destro]

So, learn a little bit before you say "All Fundamentalists are the same." by So, learn a little bit before you say "All Fundamentalists are the same." Some forms of Protestantisim has always shown an affinity for Islam - a religion that some form of Protestantisim actually resembles. In fact a pre-Luther Protestant like heresy of the "Paulicans" during the Byzantine Empire found these people siding with the Muslims against the Christians. History repeats itself?

Paulicians

Christian heretical sect. The sect developed in Armenia from obscure origins and is first mentioned in the middle of the 6th cent., where it is associated with Nestorianism. The teachings of the Paulicians seem to show some gnostic influence, possibly that of Marcion or Paul of Samosata, and many of the adherents leaned toward adoptionism. The sect especially valued the Gospel of Luke and the Pauline Epistles. They rejected the sacraments but nevertheless considered baptism of the greatest importance. They were iconoclasts and rejected extreme asceticism. By the 7th cent. the sect spread to the eastern provinces of the Byzantine Empire, where it met with strong persecution. The Council of Dvin (719) brought on new persecutions of the Paulicians in Armenia, but the permissive Isaurian emperors allowed them to flourish and even settled them as allies in Thrace. Renewed persecution caused them to side with the Muslims against Byzantium. By 844, at the height of its power, the sect established a Paulician state at Tephrike (present-day Divrigu, Turkey) under the leadership of Karbeas, or Corbeas. In 871 the Byzantine emperor Basil I ended the power of this state and the survivors fled to Syria and Armenia. In 970 the Paulicians in Syria were deported to the Balkans, where they combined with the Bogomils. Those in Armenia became identified with a minor sect, the Tondrakeci. They ceased to be a threat after the 11th cent. and did not survive to modern times.

I wonder if remnants of the Islam accepting Paulicans -come - Bogomils - who passed through parts of Southern Germany - influenced Luther?

You will find lots of information on the Paulicans on the internet many of them by Protestant or Islamic sources who both praise the Paulicans.

[cyborg]

I read through this whole thread and no one mentioned how islam is attractive to those who feel it gives them extreme structure to their lives with respect to the roles of men and women. Talking to a lot of men who converted to islam from christianity, they say they feel like real men because christianity has emasculated the modern man.

[highlander_UW]

A poster here who lives in Texas I believe said there was a recent incident in her town in which a young man who had converted to Christianity from Islam was shot to death in a public place by his cousin as punishment.

Fortunately, it's not often carried out in the US, although I know several ex-muslims who have had death threats for their change of religion. I also know an agnostic who apparently receives regular death threats as well for her leaving Islam.

[Guillermo]

I don't think we're at the point of banishment just quite yet.

[highlander_UW]

The problem is that those who want Creationism and other religious doctrines taught in the schools want them taught as the truth and without any criticism.

LOL...of course what we have now is the criticism without the teaching.

[Bombard]

The LDS will however convert you after you are dead.

[highlander_UW]

It makes sense to me to have every student in High School to read the major religious texts. Let them read the entire Bible and the entire Quran. Let them read it and discuss the comparisons between the character, life, and teachings of Jesus and Mohammed. A good open minded exposure to what the texts actually say should be part of a quality education.

For the record, I'm a Christian, and I have no problem with what you suggest. I've read a significant portion of the Quran, and I think a better understanding of it as well as the Hadith and the Sunnah would be quite an eye opener. And of course I'm certain students would be well served by a better understanding of the Bible.

[JeepInMazar]

This is the BIBLE belt, not the Shari'a belt, you moron.

I know it is the Bible belt. By the way you are so quick to use derogatory language toward others, it is clear to me that you don't practice the teachings of Christ yourself.

One of the points of the article is to demonstrate that some Americans are converting to Islam. Just because it is the Bible belt has nothing to do with that point.

If you wish to continue the discussion, go ahead. But please do not lecture me about the Bible belt or trends about Islam in America. 20 years ago I saw white Americans turning to Islam. I spoke to Christian pastors about the issue. For the past 20 years Christians in America have been asleep on this issue. For the past two years, the church has merely turned in its bed in responding to the Muslim challenge in America.

[highlander_UW]

You will find lots of information on the Paulicans on the internet many of them by Protestant or Islamic sources who both praise the Paulicans.

12 Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, "I am of Paul," and "I of Apollos," and "I of Cephas," and "I of Christ."

13 Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius,

15 so that no one would say you were baptized in my name.

1 Corinthians 1:12-15

[JeepInMazar]

But isn't that one of the big no-nos in Islam. To question anything in the koran?

Yes. The scholar I talked to about this issue is a Christian and has done some research and has told me about a secualar scholar who gained access to some of the manuscripts.

In addition, there were some ancient Qurans discovered several years ago in Yemen. I think Atlantic Monthly wrote an explosive piece about these texts.

[highlander_UW]

I read through this whole thread and no one mentioned how islam is attractive to those who feel it gives them extreme structure to their lives with respect to the roles of men and women. Talking to a lot of men who converted to islam from christianity, they say they feel like real men because christianity has emasculated the modern man.

You've personally interviewed these people, huh? I would submit that if they felt emasculated by Christianity they have a deficient idea of masculinity. But for some the warm and fuzzy feeling they get from killing people is just what they need to feel manly.

[FreedomCalls]

If a religion of 2 million people convert 200,000 more, that is a 10 percent growth rate. If a religion of 2 converts 1 more, that is a 50 percent growth rate. Which is the fastest growing religion, the one with the more converts of the one with the highest percentage of increase? Don't be fooled by the BBC's statistical manipulation using a phoney percentage increase.

[cyborg]

Yes I meet a lot of muslim converts and they really do believe Islam is the answer to feel like a real man. It has nothing to do with islamofascists. They live in America and don't see radical islam in action. Islam addresses their needs right where they are. These men are nice but to me they haven't thoroughly examined christianity. They're looking at people and bad examples.