Diocese targets Granholm on abortion

The Detroit News ^ | Friday, January 9, 2004 | Kim Kozlowski

[JohnnyZ]

Again, I'm not Catholic. I just don't like Clintonian hypocrisy.

And you don't understand a damn thing about the Catholic faith, obviously. And you have no reading comprehension. Probably the two are related.

Specious reasoning my ass. Perhaps you can explain to the bishops and the Pope how they're all wrong about thinking abortion (especially) and euthanasia are different. Idiot.

[JohnnyZ]

All spaced out in time with PLENTY of time for the actions to 'sink in' ...

You skipped Archbishop Chaput of Denver basically telling all pro-aborts in the US that they're evil and going to hell and Catholics cannot vote for pro-aborts or they'll go to hell too. Okay, so that's a slight paraphrase . . . but he did make remarks in that direction.

[JohnnyZ]

Miggsathon Since Jan 10, 2004

Oh BTW, welcome to FR "Jennifer".

[BlackElk]

Also Bishop Wiegand in Sacramento ordering former California Governor Gray Davis NOT to receive the Eucharist in the Sacramento Diocese.

And Bishop Doran in Rockford ordering that no pro-abort speakers be allowed to speak on Catholic property in this diocese.

Catholicism is breaking out all over!

[livius]

I think what you are failing to understand is that there is a difference between the Pope's opinions on matters that are not defined as doctrine, and matters that are defined or have always been accepted in Catholic teaching.

Contrary to the common Protestant misunderstanding of Papal authority, Catholics do not have to follow the private opinions of the Pope or the clergy in general.

The death penalty (because, remember, the Pope's opinion on this runs contrary to centuries of Catholic teaching), distributist economics and a host of other things are in the realm of personal opinions and not doctrine.

[I still care]

Hello! I meant, pro-choice Catholics who do so. I've met many Catholics who homeschool for religious reasons. In fact, one of the women who first mentored me in homeschooling was a devout Catholic.

[BlackElk]

If you are not Catholic, why do you care?

Just to help you along, though: The Church's positions on abortion and euthanasia are DOGMATIC. The Church's positions on government welfare, the death penalty, and the war in Iraq are prudential (at best) and NOT DOGMATIC. If that bothers or confuses you, well, it was none of your business in the first place.

As to the welfare state, read Rerum Novarum of Leo XIII (1893) for doctrine. As to the death penalty, the Papal States were perfectly capable of keeping prisoners out of circulation but executed miscreants in any event. At the coronation banquet of Sixtus V, two teen-aged highwaymen who were merely robbers, were hanged from the rafters of the banquet hall and Sixtus V observed that there would be no tolerance of armed criminals in the Papal States as demonstrated by the executions. As to the War in Iraq, the decision to make war is a judgment left by the Church to secular leaders who must, necessarily, know more than Church leaders as to why the decision is made. Wars must be conducted according to recognized objective rules and morally. Renato Cardinal Martino is not the pope and likely never will be. The pope is the monarch of a sovereign nation and, more importantly by far, the leader of the Catholic Church militant on earth but even his authority has limits well-recognized in the Church itself, which is the only recognition that counts.

The pope is not subservient to the State Department or to Adam Smith or to critics of Catholicism. If that bothers you or confuses you, again, it is none of your business since you are not Catholic.

I am a Catholic with a general but not slavish preference for many capitalist ideas and I am very enthusiastically favorable to this war and I favor the death penalty in most instances where it is applied and I am still a faithful Catholic in communion with the Holy See. Other Catholics take other positions on these non-doctrinal matters. Some of us like steak and some are vegans (not me!). If that confuses you, we do not have an obligation to satisfy whatever standards you may wish to apply to our Church which is not your own. We also pride ourselves on avoiding the Scylla and Charybdis of anarchy in the pews or democracy in the pews. Whatever your church may be (if any), we will generally refrain from advising it as to how to conduct its affairs.

[netmilsmom]

Oooops!
Pro-Life here!

[luckymom]

BINGO! You said it much better than I ever could have done. Thank you!

[ninenot]

It appears as though Muggsywomp, (whatever, Know-Nothing) is a re-run of a banned ex-FreePer and self-appointed bedbug on Catholic threads.

But your post is fun to read, as always.

[Victoria Delsoul]

Thank you, Cardinal Maida, for acting on your faith!

Bumpity bump! We need more people like him.

[Coleus]

Stop Granholm

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the ping!

[Barnacle]

Well said Mr. Elk. There's much to be learned from you.

[Barnacle]

...self-appointed bedbug on Catholic threads.

LOL Bedbug!

The term "disruptor" is reserved for political threads. Bedbug is perfect. Did you make that up?

[Miggsathon]

"Perhaps you can explain to the bishops and the Pope how they're all wrong about thinking abortion (especially) and euthanasia are different. Idiot."

Where did I say that? Moron.

[Miggsathon]

"Oh BTW, welcome to FR "Jennifer"."


Evidently you cannot grasp my very clear statement that I oppose Granholm's position on abortion, and am pro-life. I'm not sure you're capable of it, but there it is, straightforward as can be.

[Miggsathon]

"Contrary to the common Protestant misunderstanding of Papal authority, Catholics do not have to follow the private opinions of the Pope or the clergy in general."

Should the pope's "private opinion" on what constitutes just war be shrugged off by those who claim to be Catholic?