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Of Gringos and Old Grudges: This Land Is Their Land
The New York Times ^ | January 9, 2004 | TIM WEINER

Posted on 01/09/2004 10:15:57 AM PST by sarcasm

MEXICO CITY, Jan. 8 — In the American South, William Faulkner once wrote, the past isn't dead. It isn't even past.

This may become truer the farther south one goes.

In the United States, almost no one remembers the war that Americans fought against Mexico more than 150 years ago. In Mexico, almost no one has forgotten.

The war cut this country in two, and "the wound never really healed," said Miguel Soto, a Mexico City historian. It took less than two years, and ended with the gringos seizing half of Mexico, taking the land that became America's Wild West: California, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Utah and beyond.

In Mexico, they call this "the Mutilation." That may help explain why relations between the nations are sometimes so tense.

As President Bush prepares to fly down to Mexico from Texas, where the war began back in 1846, the debate here over how to relate to the United States is heating up once again.

The question of the day is the more than 20 million Mexicans who now live in the United States.

But sensitivities about sovereignty surround every thorny issue involving Americans in Mexico. Can Americans buy land? Sometimes. Drill for oil? Never. Can American officers comb airports in Mexico? Yes. Carry guns as lawmen? No. Open and close the border at will? Well, they try.

To realize that the border was fixed by war and controlled by the victors is to understand why some Mexicans may not love the 21st-century American colossus. Yet they adore the old American ideals of freedom, equality and boundless opportunity, and they keep voting, by the millions, with their feet.

In "a relationship of love and of hatred," as Mr. Soto says, bitter memories sometimes surface like old shrapnel under the skin.

Fragments of the old war stand in the slanting morning sunlight at an old convent here in Mexico City, a sanctuary seized by invading American troops in 1847, now the National Museum of Interventions, which chronicles the struggle.

"The war between Mexico and the United States has a different meaning for Mexicans and Americans," said the museum's director, Alfredo Hernández Murillo. "For Americans, it's one more step in the expansion that began when the United States was created. For Mexicans, the war meant we lost half the nation. It was very damaging, and not just because the land was lost.

"It's a symbol of Mexico's weakness throughout history in confronting the United States. For Mexicans, it's still a shock sometimes to cross the border and see the Spanish names of the places we lost."

Those places have names like Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Diego, Santa Fe, El Paso, San Antonio; the list is long.

The war killed 13,780 Americans, and perhaps 50,000 or more Mexicans — no one knows the true number. It was the first American war led by commanders from West Point. These were men like Ulysses S. Grant and William Tecumseh Sherman, Robert E. Lee and Jefferson Davis. A little more than a decade later, Grant and Sherman battled Lee and Davis in the Civil War.

Historians are still fighting over how and why the battles of the Mexican War began. Some say it was Mexico's fault for trying to stop the secession of what was then (and to some, still is) the Republic of Texas. Some say it was an imperial land grab by the president of the United States.

President James K. Polk did confide to his diary that the aim of the war was "to acquire for the United States — California, New Mexico and perhaps some other of the northern provinces of Mexico." When it was won, in February 1848, he wrote, "There will be added to the United States an immense empire, the value of which 20 years hence it would be difficult to calculate." Nine days later, prospectors struck gold in California.

Aftershocks still resonate from the Mexican War — or, as the Mexicans have it, "the American invasion." The students who walk through the National Museum of Interventions still gasp at a lithograph standing next to an American flag.

It shows Gen. Winfield Scott riding into Mexico City's national square — "the halls of Montezuma," in the words of the Marine Corps Hymn — to seize power and raise the flag. He had followed the same invasion route as the 16th-century Spanish conquerors of Mexico. The American occupation lasted 11 months.

Many of the 75,000 Mexicans living in the newly conquered American West lost their rights to own land and live as they pleased. It was well into the 20th century before much of the land was settled and civilized.

Now, that civilization is taking another turn. More than half of the 20 million Mexicans north of the border live on the land that once was theirs. Some 8.5 million live in California — a quarter of the population. Nearly half the people of New Mexico have roots in old Mexico. Mexico is, in a sense, slowly reoccupying its former property.

"History extracts its costs with the passage of time," said Jesús Velasco Márquez, a professor who has long studied the war. "We are the biggest minority in the United States, and particularly in the territory that once was ours."


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aliens; illegalscovet; immigrantlist; immigration
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To: BooBoo1000
I don't know. I'll have to admit that my historical knowlege about the aquision of Texas is greatly lacking. Thanks for poiting out this treaty for me to study.
41 posted on 01/09/2004 11:32:30 AM PST by GrandEagle
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To: BooBoo1000
That would be POINTING out.....
42 posted on 01/09/2004 11:33:27 AM PST by GrandEagle
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To: sarcasm
"It's a symbol of Mexico's weakness throughout history in confronting the United States."

LOL! Depending on whether you count from July 4, 1776 (Declaration of Independence), October 19, 1781 (British surrender at Yorktown), or June 21, 1788 (the Constitution ratified by majority of states), the United States has existed as a country for only about two and a quarter centuries.

Present-day Mexico is even younger. It covers the area where several advanced pre-Columbian Mesoamerican civilizations (Maya, Olmec, Toltec and Aztec) developed and flourished for centuries before first contact with Europeans. The native cultures were invaded and conquered by Spain starting in the early 1500's. During the colonial period from 1521 to 1821, Spain laid claim to "Nueva España" (New Spain), whose territories included today's Mexico, Florida, Louisiana, and most of what is today's southwestern United States. Mexico became a nation-state when it achieved independence from Spain in 1821.

The area that eventually became the southwest of the United States was sparsely populated with native North Americans even when claimed by Spain, which did little to actually colonize the area. In the mid-19th century, parts were sold and parts were ceded to the United States. California and Texas achieved their own independence before voluntarily joining the United States.

So what does "throughout history" actually mean? Whose claims take supremacy? True descendants of Maya, Olmec, Toltec and Aztec — or those of the many North American tribes who were native to the southern stretch from Florida to California prior to European migration? Spanish descendants, whose ancestors did little more than claim ownership of the land — or descendants of the early U.S. pioneers in the south and southwest, who developed and settled the land? How about the French, who claimed large chunks of the same territory prior to the Louisiana Purchase?

What a crock this whole "Atzlan" myth is.

43 posted on 01/09/2004 11:45:23 AM PST by Wolfstar (George W. Bush — the 1st truly great world leader of the 21st Century)
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To: MattinNJ
To be logically consistent, if the Mexicans

Of course if they were logical people, they'd have a different kind of country and economy. Spain invited in the American settlers ---- one reason was they couldn't convince Mexicans to move north into those territories. There were very few people living much north of Mexico City and the southern states.

44 posted on 01/09/2004 12:53:24 PM PST by FITZ
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To: WackyKat
From what I've seen they still are ---- a lot of New Mexicans will proudly tell you they've never been to Mexico and never will go there ---- they have no connections to that government --- and many are descended from Spaniards and or SW-USA Indians ---- they never came from south of the border but maybe some of their Spanish ancestors came up through Mexico.
45 posted on 01/09/2004 12:55:50 PM PST by FITZ
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To: sarcasm
No, I missed that one, but I clearly remember my rage at his arrogance when he stated, "Americans must give up their notions of sovereignty".
46 posted on 01/09/2004 1:02:41 PM PST by MissAmericanPie
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To: KellyAdmirer
Polk is probably the least-appreciated US President, btw. He did more for the US than many others combined.

We should name an aircraft carrier after him.

47 posted on 01/09/2004 2:36:37 PM PST by Paleo Conservative (Do not remove this tag under penalty of law.)
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To: Wolfstar
Excellent summation. Kudos.
48 posted on 01/09/2004 3:24:39 PM PST by BeerSwillr (Profanity free since 2003-12-17 20:41:45)
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To: WackyKat
as is the current class of politicos in present day mexico
49 posted on 01/09/2004 3:27:05 PM PST by BeerSwillr (Profanity free since 2003-12-17 20:41:45)
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To: Red Boots
Gadsen Purchase of 1854 - how about we get back the $15 million, plus interest, plus all capital improvement in the area since?
50 posted on 01/09/2004 3:27:50 PM PST by glorgau
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To: sarcasm
Is that the Times title?
51 posted on 01/09/2004 3:30:47 PM PST by philetus (Keep doing what you always do and you'll keep getting what you always get)
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To: sarcasm
Now, that civilization is taking another turn. More than half of the 20 million Mexicans north of the border live on the land that once was theirs.

They must really be old. I wish those old bastards would just die so we can claim it for ourselves.

52 posted on 01/09/2004 3:38:34 PM PST by raybbr
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To: philetus
Is that the Times title?

Yes.

53 posted on 01/09/2004 3:41:05 PM PST by sarcasm (Tancredo 2004)
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To: sarcasm
bump
54 posted on 01/09/2004 3:45:58 PM PST by Lady Eileen
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To: GrandEagle
come on then... Try and take it back.

What do you think that they're doing right now!? It's called low intensity warfare, but it is an invasion just the same.

55 posted on 01/09/2004 3:50:46 PM PST by Spiff (Have you committed a random act of thoughtcrime today?)
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To: FormerLib
Although I certainly wouldn't have any object to handing southern California to Mexico, so long as they take San Francisco in the deal!

If we were able to do that...I would bet in less than 10 years it [So Cal] would turn it into the same type of garbage infested, polluted and rundown craphole that is most of Northern Mexico. Further, the same slums and garbage towns that dot the Mexican side of the border would just sprout up further north, complete with millions of illegals trying to sneak across the new Northern boarder border.

56 posted on 01/09/2004 4:02:06 PM PST by antaresequity
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To: Tijeras_Slim; archy; MattinNJ
I gotta write faster before my novel is overtaken by events!
57 posted on 01/09/2004 6:09:57 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: WackyKat
Exactly. An aggressive Mexican irredentist movement is beginning to gain momentum And it will get far worse.

You're going to want to read my next novel, "Domestic Enemies."

58 posted on 01/09/2004 6:11:47 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: ZULU
Nice commentary!
59 posted on 01/09/2004 6:13:16 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: sarcasm
As President Bush prepares to fly down to Mexico from Texas, where the war began back in 1846....

I thought it was 1836???

60 posted on 01/09/2004 6:18:00 PM PST by JamesWilson
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