Tired of Taxes, Vermont Ski Resort Town Considers Joining New Hampshire [See ya Dean..]

TBO.COM ^

[Sub-Driver]

Tired of Taxes, Vermont Ski Resort Town Considers Joining New Hampshire The Associated Press

KILLINGTON, Vt. (AP) - Officials in the popular ski resort area of Killington want the town to secede from Vermont and join neighboring New Hampshire in a dispute over taxes. They say the town's restaurants, inns and other businesses send $10 million a year to the state capital in sales, room and meal taxes, but the state returns just $1 million in state aid to Killington.

Even more galling to the town is a statewide property tax imposed in 1997 to fund schools. The town of 1,092 won a Superior Court order that called the state's method of assessing local properties "arbitrary and capricious," but the state Supreme Court reversed that decision.

"It kind of reminds us of Colonial days," Town Manager David Lewis said Thursday. "The Colonies were being faced with the Stamp Act, the Tea Act, the Sugar Act. England wasn't giving them any rights. They were treating the Colonies as just a revenue source."

New Hampshire, just 25 miles east, has no income tax or sales tax.

Killington's Select Board wants to put the secession idea before voters on Town Meeting Day in March.

Secretary of State Deborah Markowitz said Killington has little chance of secession "absent an armed insurrection type of thing. ... A town is a construction of the state and exists at the pleasure of the Legislature."

New Hampshire Deputy Secretary of State David Scanlan said he would be flattered if Vermont wanted to join New Hampshire - but he's not making any promises.

In Killington, not everyone likes the idea.

"I love having a Vermont address. I'm proud of it. It's a cool place to live," said resident Steven Kelly.

[Poser]

"Yes but they have some Hellish Property Tax."

We have a property tax, but it is no higher than Maine or Vermont and lower than Mass. It averages about $20 per thousand at 100% valuation. In towns with few children, like Killington, the property tax rate would be closer to $15 per thousand.

We also have room and meals tax of 7% (or is it 8%).

What we don't have is a sales tax or an income tax. Overall, our tax burden is substantially lower than just about anywhere. Alaska is the only state with a lower tax burden (5.5%), NH is second with 6.6% and Delaware is third with 7.7%.

Vermont is 12th highest with an overal tax burden of 10.1%. That means Vermont's tax burden is 53% higher than NH.

The other surrounding states are Maine at #1 (12.2%) and Mass at #13 (9.9%).

[SGCOS]

..Secretary of State Deborah Markowitz said Killington has little chance of secession "absent an armed insurrection type of thing. ... A town is a construction of the state and exists at the pleasure of the Legislature."

What an obnoxious and arrogant statement.

[truthandjustice1]

I live in Townsend, and will be moving to Manchester, NH some time this year. Although it will be for business reasons, the fact that Mass is about to become the first state to legalize homosexual marriages played a role in the decision.

[dangus]

That and the fact that Townsend was busted for kiddie porn.

(So as not to defame Pete, I must add I'm only kidding and actually believe his story.)

[truthandjustice1]

That and the fact that Townsend was busted for kiddie porn

Good one!

[hattend]

Secretary of State Deborah Markowitz said Killington has little chance of secession "absent an armed insurrection type of thing. ... A town is a construction of the state and exists at the pleasure of the Legislature."

Nyet, Comrade Markowitz!

Why do people who say things like this continue to get elected?

[Paladin2b]

"... Secretary of State Deborah Markowitz said Killington has little chance of secession "absent an armed insurrection type of thing. ... A town is a construction of the state and exists at the pleasure of the Legislature."
There you have it folks. The attitude of politicians in a nutshell. She might have well as said, " Americans live and breathe at the pleasure of the legislature!"

Um, no. She isn't saying that _people_ exist at the pleasure of government, she is just stating the truth that a municipality or county only exists as a creature of a sovereign state. People who claim to be states' righters can't have it both ways: you can't claim the sovereign rights belonging to a state without accepting that a state has the PLENARY power to organize itself. Only the Posse Comitatus folks hold that the sovereignty of the people is expressed in the locality rather than the State.

[firerosemom]

C'mon up! The air is fresh & clean here (if a bit cold - it's 5 degrees outside right now - time to go fire up the wood stove)

:)

[af_vet_rr]

IMO property tax is the most evil, since you will never own your property.

Yes, and you better be careful where you live. Property taxes can rise rapidly over 5-10 years, and you could find yourself taxed out of your home. It happens.

[TedsGarage]

This reminds me of the old joke about the man who was told, because of surveyor's error, his house was actually in Massachusetts and not, as he had always believed, in Vermont.

"Well, that's a relief," he said. "I don't think I could have taken another Vermont winter."

[Michael.SF.]

Did we not demonstrate about 142 yrs ago that secession would not be tolerated?

[longshadow]

ping

[longshadow]

ping

[HostileTerritory]

We have a property tax, but it is no higher than Maine or Vermont and lower than Mass. It averages about $20 per thousand at 100% valuation.

Sorry, but in my experience, property taxes are WAY lower in Massachusetts than New Hampshire. It stands to reason because so much of the income tax and sales tax revenue is recycled as state aid to the towns and cities. My property taxes are about $6 per thousand at 100% valuation. And I'm quite close to downtown Boston in a nearby suburb.

New Hampshire prides itself on no sales or income taxes but at the end of the day you still pay for schools and roads somehow.

Life in New Hampshire is less expensive than eastern Massachusetts. The tax differential is not as great as people in NH would like to believe, but the difference in real estate costs certainly is.

[HostileTerritory]

I wish you the best of luck in your new home, but I am sorry you are leaving. Boston is too wonderful a city, and Massachusetts too beautiful a state, to abandon completely to the liberals.

[Poser]

"$6 per thousand at 100% valuation"

And your house costs 3 times as much as mine. The end result is the same.

How much tax would you pay on a modern 4 bedroom house with a 2 car garage (with 2nd floor)and 1/2 acre yard with city water and sewer in a quiet neighborhood in your town?

$3000 here. I paid $150K for my property. The same house is tons more expensive in the Boston suburbs. My father in law has a similar property without the garage in Stow, Mass. His taxes are well above mine.

[HostileTerritory]

And your house costs 3 times as much as mine. The end result is the same.

Nope. 2 family house, bought for $320k in 2000, now assessed at significantly more but nowhere near $750k. My property taxes have gone up from about $2,000 to $3,100.

I couldn't get the kind of house you have in my city. They don't exist. I won't disagree that a few towns further out, that house would go for way more than what you'd pay for it if you're willing and able to live in New Hampshire. The Boston housing market is insane. However, the value is there. Higher incomes and resale value make up for it to some degree. The lifestyle benefits of living near Boston, whether you work there or like the culture, are another factor.

Conversely, you couldn't pay me enough to live in a single-family house in New Hampshire. First, I love all the restaurants, museums, and culture in Boston, and second, I have a good, decent-paying job in a field that doesn't exist outside of New York, Boston, Chicago, and a few other major cities. Different markets, different lifestyles, different needs. There's no good comparison.

I think it's fine that many people find it better for them to live in New Hampshire. The cost of real estate is lower, there's no income tax or sales tax, sure. But it strains credulity to argue that property taxes are lower. We don't spend that much more money than you to make that the case.

For what it's worth, Stow is one of the wealthiest, fastest-growing towns in the state. I don't think it's a fair comparison for taxes.

[truthandjustice1]

Thank you for those kind words. It won't be easy, especially after living in MA since 1977.

[Timesink]

New Hampshire, just 25 miles east, has no income tax or sales tax.

Um, what about the people living in that 25-mile-long zone between Killington and the NH border? Killington can't just make itself part of a state it's not even bordering.

Well okay, I guess they theoretically COULD, but is there a similar situation anywhere in the United States of a town or county belonging to one state being completely landlocked by another?