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To: BenLurkin; Chu Gary; cksharks; sgtbono2002
To be honest on that play, and I'm NOT a fan of Rose.

Rose-Fosse play in '70 lives on in infamy........ With the approach of the annual All-Star game, the media likes to revisit noteworthy midsummer classics of the past. Probably the most memorable All-Star Game play occurred on July 14, 1970. The score was tied, 4-4, with two out in the bottom of the 12th inning. Hits by the Reds' Pete Rose and the Dodgers' Billy Grabarkewitz put runners on first and second. Then, the Cubs' Jim Hickman singled to center. Kansas City's Amos Otis hurriedly fielded the ball in shallow center and heaved it toward the plate as Rose barreled around third. Rose then bowled over Indians rookie catcher Ray Fosse to score the winning run and end the game. It was the eighth straight victory for the National League.

Over the years, a lot of people have put their own spin on the story. It was a dirty play by a dirty player, they say; Rose ruined Fosse's career in a meaningless game.

Let's review exactly what happened in the play. Rose is approaching home plate with the potential winning run. He starts to go into his patented head-first slide, but then he realizes something: Fosse, 3 inches taller, 20 pounds heavier, and covered with protective gear, has the plate blocked as he awaits the ball — which, incidentally, is against the rules. Rose can either (a) go face-first into Fosse's shin guards and get tagged out; (b) tip-toe around Fosse and get tagged out; or (c) go through him to win the game. Rose chooses "c," aborting his slide and laying out Fosse to end it. It was a clean play, a winning play, and neither player criticized the other then or now — in Fosse's words, it was "a couple of aggressive ballplayers doing their jobs."

Fosse (along with Indians pitcher Sam McDowell) had been Rose's houseguest the night before, talking baseball until 3 a.m. After the game, both players involved in the collision were hospitalized, but Fosse was released before Rose. Fosse was back in the lineup the first game after the break; Rose didn't play again until July 19, five days after the collision, and he didn't hit with authority for several weeks afterward (three extra-base hits in his next 85 at-bats, as compared to 58 in 564 the rest of the year).

It has been written that Fosse suffered a separated shoulder in the collision, but that it went undiagnosed. Fosse continued to hit for average (he finished the season at .307), but with diminished power — he had 16 homers before the break but two after. He played through the 1979 season, but never really approached his first-year numbers. Of course, that's true of a lot of hot-shot rookies.

As for the "meaninglessness" of the All-Star game, the original premise was "Let's pick the best players in each league, match them against each other, play for pride and glory, and see which league comes out on top." Somewhere over the past 25 years, it became "Let's find good players who don't want a three-day vacation, trot them out there for two or three innings each, encourage them to clown around, and play until they've had enough." Many people seem to prefer the latter; I don't. We'll see if the new rule — giving the winning league home-field advantage in the World Series — makes a difference.

Now, that's the REAL story. Gambling most likely had nothing to do with it.

24 posted on 01/09/2004 7:23:48 AM PST by thesummerwind (Like painted kites, those days and nights, they went flyin' by)
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To: thesummerwind
I agree with your summation of the events that happened in that game. As a catcher, I have been hammered many times while blocking the plate. If you block the plate, you should expect to take the beating that will inevitably come your way. If you set yourself up properly (and get the ball in time), with all of that gear, it's the other guy who's going to end up wishing he hadn't tried. In 42 years of playing, I've given as good as I got.

The worst hits that I've ever taken as a catcher (in high school, Babe Ruth, and college baseball and in league softball) were in Church League games. I once had to take 18 months off to allow my left knee to heal before I could pay again. I was blocking home plate and the throw came in from the cutoff man high. Instead of just letting it go, I went up on my left leg to pull it down and the runner slammed into me while I was planted and extended.

Using the situation of this game to block Pete Rose from the HOF is an insult to a fine catcher and one who knew the risks in that position.

32 posted on 01/09/2004 11:07:19 AM PST by BlueLancer (Der Elite Møøsënspåånkængrüppen ØberKømmååndø (EMØØK))
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To: thesummerwind; genghis
"Gambling most likely had nothing to do with it."

Maybe someday we'll know for sure one way or the other. Until then, in my mind the burden is on Rose to prove otherwise.

38 posted on 01/09/2004 8:01:49 PM PST by BenLurkin (Socialism is Slavery)
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