General Grant's Infamy (Lincoln to Grant: "kicking the Jews out is wrong.")

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[DonQ]

The story is true. Grant did issue such an order.

Grant never manifested any other hostility to Jews and it appears that his order was motivated by military considerations: Traveling peddlars (virtually all of them Jewish) had been plying their trade on both sides of the battlelines, and Grant may have been concerned that some of them might be spies.

[Fledermaus]

Grant ain't got nothing on Europe today when it comes to anti-semitism!

[CatoRenasci]

One of my Brother Rats (classmates) at the Virginia Military Institute was a direct descendent of a rabbi who had been Jewish chaplain in the Army of Northern Virginia. A number of other Jewish cadets had forebears who had fought for the South, as well as in the Revolutionary War. In those days, Southerners distinguished between 'Yankee Jews' and "Southerners of the Jewish Faith" (as one of my Jewish Brother Rats explained to me).

[#3Fan]

But it was okay for Grant to slaughter white Christian southerners, though, right?

When they shoot first, yeah.

[Jaxter]

And don't forget Judah Benjamin who served as the Confederate's Attorney-General, Secretary of State and Secretary of War.

[jimtorr]

Oh , yes, the Union moved on the Confederate Mississippi River states soon after the war started. All the war on the Union side was played out using General Winfield Scott's strategy, which was to strangle the core Confederacy between the Miss. and the Atlantic.

Grant came to high command and the publics attention by taking two forts in Kentucky in the wars first campaign in the west, and forcing the Confederat armies to evacuate Kentucky, most of Western Tennessee and northern Miss.

Remember, Kentucky never seceded from the Union at all, and only the western half of Tennessee did.

Grant first invested Memphis in his second campaign, in 1862. The Union Navy took New Orleans in spring 1863, I think it was, and closed the Miss. River to theConfederacy. Memphis surrendered in early July 1863, shortly after the battle of Gettysburg.

The only reason the Civil War lasted more than 2.5 years was that it took that long for the Union Army of the Potomac to find a General who knew how to fight a campaign. The war was over in the west in the summer of 1863.

[Libertarianize the GOP]

ping

[CatoRenasci]

Of course not.

Closer to home (for me): Sir Moses Ezekiel, 19th century sculptor and painter of some reputation, was a VMI man and fought with the Corps of Cadets in the Battle of New Market, May 15, 1864. In which battle the Corps of Cadets' charge was responsible for the Southern victory. Whe the Cadet Battalion appeared on the field (committed by the Confederate commander as a last resort, with tears in his eyes), the Union officers (especially the Germans-this was XI Corps) thought that based on the cadets' size, unique and complete uniforms, unique flag, and, above all, their precision and coolness under fire, they were facing European regular troops.

[stainlessbanner]

“Every colonel, captain or quartermaster is in a secret partnership with some operator in cotton;"

Carpetbaggers

[stainlessbanner]

So, another reason I like being a member of the party of Lincoln!

Grant is part of the same party. His presidency was plagued with corruption, speculation, overcharging, scamming taxes, and "gift" appointments to his buddies. On the other hand the CSA had J.P. Benjamin, the president's right-hand man.

[gobucks]

I agree. (That's why I added the Lincoln part...to tease people to do that, and thus show that it was countered.)

[4CJ]

Grant is part of the same party. His presidency was plagued with corruption, speculation, overcharging, scamming taxes, and "gift" appointments to his buddies. On the other hand the CSA had J.P. Benjamin, the president's right-hand man.

'An enslaved and servile race you can never make of us ? never! never!'
Judah P. Benjamin, Speech on the US Senate floor, 31 Dec 1860, (Robert N. Rosen, The Jewish Confederates, Columbia: University of South Carolina Press, 2000 , p.12)

It seems that Benjamin also challenged Sen. Jefferson Davis to a duel in 1858, but Davis apologized before the duel took place.

[stainlessbanner]

I never knew that about the duel. Interesting!

[ahumblefan]

Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that Grant slaughtered Irish and German immigrants in his campaign against Lee by repeatedly using his army to make massed assaults upon heavily fortified positions. He lost most of his battles against Lee, yet ultimately won the war due to sheer numbers and his willingness to take casualities.

Grant's loss rate was so severe that his army was repeatedly replinished with hapless draftees. The new drafts caused riots in the North.

In Grant, Lincoln finally found a general who could carry out his "awful arithmitic:" A series of horrific battles causing massive losses on both sides would eventually bring the South to its knees because they would run out of men before the North did. Both Lincoln and Grant purposely "slaughtered" thousands of men on both sides to win a war they thought was moral. Did that make them monsters or men of a stronger breed than our leaders of today? An important question, especially in these times.

[SJackson]

Other than this incident (and Grant contended he didn't read the order he signed), Grant never displayed hostility toward Jews. It's a non event.

Grant was incensed at the permits allowing cotton to be shipped to northern factories, feeling that it was providing support to the enemy, as it was.

Left out of this article is Grant's off and on relationship with his father, and his embarrassment at the fact that his father's firm, a partnership with a Jewish trader, was one of the largest cotton traders. There has been speculation that the order may have been Grant's way of eliminating that embarrassment without having to confront his father directly.

[SJackson]

If you'd like to be on or off this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.

[SJackson]

Grant ain't got nothing on Europe today when it comes to anti-semitism!

Not true. There's nothing in his long record to support that.

[gobucks]

Well, most folks were anti-Jewish (and a lot of other anti-stuff too) if what I read has merit. The intersection Lincoln had with the Jews, on the other hand....this was news to me.

On the other hand, GRANT OWNED SLAVES!!!!???? I must have really received a biased, (though I've known for awhile how incompetently delivered it was) Ohio state government school education!

(Or maybe I was distracted the day of that particular lesson...I must have had ADD then, but I didn't know it, heh, heh. The compassionate drug cops didn't get me...).

(Ahhh, time for some Sugar Smacks!!!)

...now, time to google about Grant's slaves, but now I'm distracted - why wasn't Lincoln the typical anti-semite?....

Whoa, Lincoln was not a Mason; but his attitudes would suggest he was ...

...aha, anti-masonic politics widespread at the time of his nomination

...trouble with local Springfield masons....and a duel that almost was using swords???????


Abraham Lincoln and Freemasonry

...Mary Todd is connected somehow to this duel, and her subsequent landing of the man she would ""not have married"" if she hadn't decided he was "White House timber" ok...news to me (Johnson's History of the American People)

...and, she initially had to fend off Douglas first!!!!!

...Mary Todd is connected somehow to this duel, and her subsequent landing of the man she would ""not have married"" if she hadn't decided he was "White House timber" ok...news to me

...and, she initially had to fend off Douglas first!!!!!

....Oops, Mary Todd, like Grant's wife, had connections from HER side of the family for slaves,

...but seems NOT to have owned slaves once she reached adulthood

...and, in fact, seems to have been active in the underground to some extent

...but, oddly, she's been quoted as saying "if Mr Lincoln should happen to die, his spirit will never find me living outside the boundaries of a slave state"

...but, she dies in Illinois...

... ok, nuff on that, back to Grant....wait, Black Confederates....knew about that, but...

W. E. Williams, awesome black conservative offers this article with a tidbit confirming Grant's slaves (God I love the INTERNET!!!!)

http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/wew/articles/00/black_confederates.html

...Now, Grant's "good help is hard to find" - now that sounds like what I have read about attitudes back then....

Anti-something was common back then. That's the problem of today I think - few are anti-anything anymore, and the leftists fill the vacuum and then vacuum the anti-nothings souls....

And kids get screwed while leftists smirk...

[Phil V.]

. . . was it ever published which individual she was referring to? I'm guessing whoever it was, they voted Republican!!

http://www.drudgereport.com/mat28c.htm

[gobucks]

Thanks for that...and it dovetails with what I have been reading...