US Security Needs Anger Some Europeans

The Guardian (UK) ^ | 1-8-2004 | Jill Lawless

[blam]

U.S. Security Needs Anger Some Europeans

Thursday January 8, 2004 12:16 AM

By JILL LAWLESS

Associated Press Writer

LONDON (AP) - Fears of a new airborne terrorist attack have brought heightened tensions, grounded flights - and created turbulence for U.S.-European relations.

Some European nations have balked at the United States' tough new aviation security measures, which include armed guards on aircraft and preflight scrutiny of passenger lists. Airlines, hit by rising security demands, want governments to handle part of the cost.

``There are tensions within Europe on how to handle U.S. requests,'' said Philip Butterworth-Hayes, editor of Jane's Aircraft Components. ``Politically, it's a complete nightmare for Europe.''

Meanwhile, France is searching for an Afghan on a U.S. list of suspected terrorists because someone with his name failed to board a Christmas Eve flight across the Atlantic that was canceled amid security fears, officials said Wednesday.

A passenger surnamed Hai was ticketed for Air France Flight 68 to Los Angeles but did not show up, French officials said. They said investigators have not yet established whether the passenger is the Abdou Hai on a U.S. terrorism watch list or someone with the same name.

The name was one reason why security on trans-Atlantic flights was stepped up over the holiday season. In all, six Air France flights between Paris and Los Angeles on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day were canceled amid concerns members of the al-Qaida terrorist network might try to board planes.

Investigators said Abdou Hai is not known to French intelligence, and France's judiciary has not opened an investigation into him, meaning he is not now suspected of wrongdoing.

Secretary of State Colin Powell, asked at a news conference Wednesday if there was a single potential terrorist loose who is a source of grave concern, said he was ``not aware of any one particular individual who is loose.''

But Justice Minister Dominique Perben confirmed Wednesday that French and European authorities were searching for someone who failed to show up for an Air France flight.

``We are looking for someone, but I can't say more,'' Perben told RMC radio. ``What's important when someone doesn't take a plane is to know why he didn't take it,'' he added.

The Air France flights were canceled after U.S. intelligence told their French counterparts that al-Qaida operatives would try to board the planes over Christmas, French officials have said.

Since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, many airlines around the world have acceded to U.S. requests, installing bulletproof cockpit doors on aircraft and agreeing to share passenger lists with U.S. authorities. But for some, the demand for armed sky marshals on flights to the United States was a step too far.

While a European Union-wide aviation safety agency is being established, each member country has been free to take its own position on sky marshals.

The Irish government, which took over the rotating presidency of the European Union on Jan. 1, said Wednesday it was organizing a meeting of EU aviation chiefs in Brussels, Belgium, next week to discuss the U.S. request.

On Dec. 29, the U.S. Department of Homeland Security announced that airlines would be required to place armed law enforcement officers on flights to the United States ``where necessary.''

The announcement came after U.S. authorities raised their terrorism alert to orange, the second-highest level, and increased security surrounding international flights. More than a dozen flights to the United States on British Airways, Aeromexico and Air France have been canceled or delayed since New Year's Eve because of security fears.

British Transport Secretary Alistair Darling called the deployment of sky marshals ``responsible and prudent'' and said passengers would have to get used to increased security. France and Germany, alongside nations such as Canada and Australia, also agreed to the U.S. request, with Germany saying it has had sky marshals on some flights for more than two years.

But civil aviation authorities in Denmark, Sweden, Finland and Portugal all said they would not allow armed marshals to fly and would instead cancel flights if there was a strong suspicion of a planned attack.

Denmark's Transportation Minister, Flemming Hansen, told the Politiken newspaper that ``putting armed guards on passenger planes is the same as saying that the terrorists have won.''

Package tour operator Thomas Cook, which operates charter flights between London and Orlando, Fla., also said it would not accept sky marshals, and pilot organizations in Britain, Spain and other countries expressed strong reservations.

``We do not accept that it is necessary to introduce armed officials on to aircraft,'' Conor Nolan, director of safety for the Irish Airline Pilots Association, was quoted as saying by the Irish Examiner newspaper. ``The aircraft should be the last place for security measures. They should have taken place on the ground before takeoff.''

Aviation expert Butterworth-Hayes said the trans-Atlantic disagreement ``partly comes from differences of culture, for example on the issue of arming pilots. The U.S. is much more bullish about that.''

Cost is also a factor. Heightened security measures since Sept. 11 have cost major airlines between $90 million and $180 million, according to aviation analyst Nick van den Brul of BN Paribas.

Sky marshals are not the first American demand to have met a mixed reception. In December, after months of negotiations, the European Union agreed to share flight passenger lists with U.S. authorities. But the EU won concessions to comply with European privacy rules, including an agreement to hold the data for 3 years rather than the 50 years originally proposed.

And on Wednesday the Australian airline Qantas bridled at a U.S. request that it discourage passengers from gathering in groups during flights to America. Australian Transport Minister John Anderson described the request as ``a little bit hard to handle.''

Darrin Kayser, a spokesman for the U.S. Transportation Security Administration, said Wednesday that passengers were free to wait in line for airplane bathrooms. But he said the agency had asked all airlines flying to the United States to discourage people from congregating on planes, possibly by making announcements to that effect before takeoff.

Other nations have been irked by the U.S. introduction of fingerprint scanning and photographing for visitors from all but 27 mostly European nations. Last week, Brazil began fingerprinting and photographing arriving Americans in retaliation.

On Tuesday, the Brazilian foreign minister met with the U.S. ambassador to ask that Brazilians be exempted from fingerprinting and that they ``be treated with dignity,'' according to a government statement.

David Learmount, an aviation expert with Flight International magazine, said U.S. authorities would have to accept a compromise on some of its security demands.

The effort against terrorism should be ``about people working together, not America bulldozing its way around, telling everyone what to do,'' he said.

[Byron_the_Aussie]

..how come an ally such as you can't lend a little tolerance and support to the US?...

I could ask you exactly the same question. We've signed up for all kinds of military ventures at the request of the US. We've just sent another bunch of troops to Iraq today, for crying out loud. And this toilet queue idiocy is the thanks we get? How about you show a bit of 'tolerance and support', lady?

[Byron_the_Aussie]

..you do not have "need to know" for every detail and rationale behind our counterterrorist measures. You have a choice: Comply with the conditions, or stay out of my country....

Don't ask questions, don't complain, just follow orders, eh, Lou?

I can hear you clicking your heels together, from here.

[tsmith130]

Ok Byron, if it will make you happy, be a rebel...queue up for the damn toilet! Sheesh!

[medscribe]

Dear Europe:

You always have the right NOT to come across the Atlantic. If you choose to come, follow our rules or else we'll obliterate your planes and ships if they come within our territorial airspace or waters.

Have a nice day.

[Byron_the_Aussie]

...if you choose to come, follow our rules or else we'll obliterate your planes and ships if they come within our territorial airspace or waters...

...off your meds, medscribe?

[Byron_the_Aussie]

..Ok Byron, if it will make you happy, be a rebel...queue up for the damn toilet! Sheesh!...

Well, I know I'm getting a bit bombastic, here. But what is it with all these posters who'll gratefully accept any nanny state stupidity that comes down the pipe? "Please sir, may I have another?" I've spent the Christmas break reading some shattering books on tyranny- Richard and Sabrina Wurmbrands' accounts, and Anne Applebaum's Gulag, amongst others. Not to draw too long a bow, but this 'the state is always right' mantra is how it all starts.

Not to mention the cost. Three hundred and fifty billion dollars, for crying out loud. Imagine if one-one hundredth of that had been spent showing the Afghans, for instance, the benefits of our way of life. Free enterprise, individual and property rights, and dare I say it, Christian values. Imagine if we were as keen to promote an enclave of Western-style success somewhere in the Middle East (or Africa) to show the neighbours how it's done?

[medscribe]

Yo Byron:

I can still SMELL in my memory the ash and soot and burning and decaying flesh at Ground Zero. If Euroweenies and others think we're going overboard, then by all means don't come to this country. It's your choice. Stop bitching and moaning. If you come here, follow our rules, or else be on the receiving end of a US missile. End of story.

[Arpege92]

Tolerance is something I am running out of when it comes to the likes of you. Don't try to even explain to me how inconvienced you are going to be when a few people I knew were MURDERED on 9/11!

Take your AUSSIE ATTITUDE back down under. Come back when you can be somewhat polite towards others or when you learn the hard way how important security really is.

[Byron_the_Aussie]

..I can still SMELL in my memory the ash and soot and burning and decaying flesh at Ground Zero...

that's got absolutely nothing to do with the issue at hand. I note that none of you can explain to me how banning queueing for toilets on inbound planes from Australia is going to make you safer. All this ban's going to do is make things difficult for passengers, especially for the elderly. I can just imagine the whines and screams from you bunch if that was brought in for domestic flights. But because it's for foreigners only, that's okay.

[Byron_the_Aussie]

..tolerance is something I am running out of when it comes to the likes of you...

Puh-leez. You didn't have any, start with.

Tell me how the likelihood of another 911 is reduced by the Toilet Initiative, Arpege.

[Byron_the_Aussie]

...I have been to your beautiful country, on R & R back in 69...

PS Doc: I just looked at this post, again. I know it's a zillion-to-one shot, but might you have any chance at that time been a country boy who (despite the regulations) decided to take a train out of Sydney (south) to see what our countryside was like? Cheers, By

[Arpege92]

"I can just imagine the whines and screams from you bunch if that was brought in for domestic flights."

BULL....Americans are willing to put up with inconviences when it comes to traveling by plane. Goes to show that you don't know what the hell you are talking about. The only WHINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNING going on here is you BYRON. Boo hoo hoo....I've been inconvienced by those Americans.

I have a cure for your whine though.....STAY HOME!

[Byron_the_Aussie]

...I have a cure for your whine though.....STAY HOME!...

Nope. We've been invited over, by a couple of Freepers. And I'd like to make that trip, I always enjoy visiting your country. But I must admit, if Eddie Munster at HS gets any crazier, I guess we'll have to go somewhere else.

[Byron_the_Aussie]

Whilst we're sharing advice, perhaps three fingers of Night Train and a Vicodin might help you settle down? That is, if you haven't taken both already.

[Bombard]

I wish I had paid closer attention in my Abnormal Psyc class. You have this thing about toliets just let it go. I bet most people would not have thought about bombs in shoes on airliners three years ago. Who knows what intel triggered this latest alert. I trust the US government maybe you should also. 9/11 changed alot of things and a minor hassle involving toliets is the price we all pay for a chance at safety. Like it or not the whole free world is at war against these Islamic nuts who have inventive ways to kill those who they deam a enemies. Remember Bali!!!

[fr_freak]

How about one of you guys answer the questions, for once? You, Caisson- tell me, please, how banning queueing for toilets on flights from Sydney to Hawaii makes you safer. Thanks in advance, Byron

I'll take a stab at answering some of your questions.

First, I can understand how this request would seem ridiculous to you. If I had heard of such a thing before 9/11/01 I would have thought it silly and paranoid, too. However, things are different for us here in the USA now. They may be the same in Australia as they were before, but I wonder if your country would refrain from all things silly and pointless if a few planes were crashed into downtown Sydney. We are working out the details, trying to figure out the best long-term strategies for security and in the short-term, just trying to survive. If you think the no-lavatory-congregation rule is silly, you should see the silly security measures that we endure on domestic flights. Refusing to specifically target Muslims, for instance, and requiring little old white ladies to remove their shoes and belts for inspections are two examples. We know some of these rules are silly and we know we have to keep a close watch to make sure things don't cross the line, but we also know that the system is still being worked out, and doing nothing is not an alternative. So, if you're looking for sympathy because, of all the repercussions of 9/11 in the world, the net effect on you is that you can't stand around outside the bathroom with a few mates and talk football scores, you're not going to find it here.

Doc, have you ever considered that the success of Bin Laden's attacks is based in part on the way the security services are always responding to the last one?

One must respond to the last attack method, as well as try to anticipate the next one. To ignore the last method because you think it couldn't possibly be tried twice would be madness.

..hey, paying for the security needs of Europe for the last 50+ years was kind of annoying to us... Well, it's not annoying to Australians.

I appreciate the military support Australia has traditionally given the US, but when we say we have been paying for the security needs of Europe for the last century, we mean it literally. It goes beyond the commission of a number of troops to a combat area. The USA has poured a significant portion of its economy and industry into providing an umbrella for half the world, as if they were our own people, all the while enduring endless protests made possible by the very freedom we secured. Australia's contribution, while admirable, is nothing close to this scale.

We've just sent another bunch of troops to Iraq today, for crying out loud. And this toilet queue idiocy is the thanks we get?

With this statement, you give the impression that you don't believe it is in Australia's interest to secure Iraq, or Afghanistan, or wherever else we may end up in this war. I would remind you, though, that Australia and the rest of the western world is no less of a target than the USA. If Al-Qaeda could have succeeded in destroying us that day, believe me, Australia would be high on the list of next targets, regardless of how many capitulations to Islam your country may have ever made. They simply hate your culture and envy your success. What Australia does now benefits itself in two ways - 1) It helps defeat forces who would certainly threaten it, 2) It maintains a faithful alliance with the sole superpower, a nation which would absolutely risk its own destruction before it would let Australia, or any other ally, fall. And for this you believe the US owes thanks?

Not to mention the cost. Three hundred and fifty billion dollars, for crying out loud.

We just committed an estimated 400 billion dollars to a useless prescription drug program. We give away billions in aid every year to countries who hate us. We just dedicated massive money and material to help Iran, a country that refers to us as the Great Satan, to help in its time of need. Why do we do these things? Because we can. If you are concerned about how Australia is spending its money, by all means write to your local representative. The US wil spend its money how it sees fit. And refraining from queuing at bathrooms costs nothing.

I hope this answers some of your questions.

[Fenris6]

"bozo- but the facts are that these ridiculous measures don't make anyone safer."

How do you know they don't? Are you a counter-terrorism expert? Or just an ignorant dolt?

"What you want is to feel safer, right?"

I live in DC. Its the safest city on the planet.

What I WANT is for our "guests" to gracefully abide by our rules when visiting our "house". You may not agree with our security measures, you may be ignorant of security issues in general - don't care. Abide or stay home.

[Fenris6]

"I note that none of you can explain to me how banning queueing for toilets on inbound planes from Australia is going to make you safer."

Catch a clue - we aren't security experts - we don't know and neither do you.

[Prince Charles]

A passenger surnamed Hai was ticketed for Air France Flight 68 to Los Angeles but did not show up, French officials said. They said investigators have not yet established whether the passenger is the Abdou Hai on a U.S. terrorism watch list or someone with the same name.

First time I've seen the perp identified by name.

[RIGHT IN LAS VEGAS]

The all fearing, all knowing Chiefs of the EU!

Our friends in the EU are recruiting crack intelligence!