W's Live Speech Thread

If you don't believe it, BRING IT. I'm here.

Just how much further does one have to go beyond ignorance to reach you there?

"He said this program requires these TEMPORARY workers to return to their country when the work is done. IT IS NOT a fast track to citizenship, BUSH MADE THAT CLEAR."

Sure he did. And this policy is engraved in stone? Can never be changed?Three years from now he can't say "These "immigrants" have worked hard and made this a better country. Put down roots. bought houses. Have kids in schools and colleges.
We cannot just kick them out!"

Three years from now will be close to the next election, won't it?

Rove just put the entire South West in play and most of the MidWest. Nobody but the far left Dems and some employers want this. Most in the Nation want immigration from Mexico to come to a full stop and the illegals sent home.

This may not stop W's chances this year but in the end it will cost the Republican party dearly. It may move it back to minority states in 06 or 08. It is extremely stupid policy and politics.

And to top it all off, the Hispanics will not vote for the Republicans in any large numbers. The elitists in the Republican Party do not understand what it means to live on the ground in areas where the Dem machine ids humming away - they will not even conceive of voting Republican. Will even 50% offset the loss of the conservative vote which must be at least 60% of the current Republican base.

In any event why would it matter? Compassionate "conservatism" or "socialism with a human face," it is all the same thing. The Republicans are committing suicide. One would think that two defeats due to Ross Perot would have taught them something. Evidently it did not. The "stupid party" indeed.

They will also lose the moderate vote once the WTO recedes from the moderates' minds. That might not be this year but it will be soon. Bush and Rove do not seem to care.

Perhaps they really are in cahoots with the Democrats. After the Drug Plan and CFR this is really too much for me to take sitting down. I am out for 04.

Frankly, I couldn't care less who wins the playoffs this weekend. I don't care about football, but I do care about America.

Now, tell me, did the President, or did he not, state that these guest workers could bring their families (dependents) here? If they are paying Federal taxes, and they bring their families here, they will qualify for Earned Income Credit, if they're in low-paid jobs. Earned Income Credit gives them back EVERY PENNY they paid in U.S. taxes, plus more money that they didn't pay in. Also, I know several American citizens who qualify for Earned Income Credit. I've never known any of them to end up paying the states they live in one penny in tax monies -in other words, they received a refund of every dime they paid in, at both the state and federal level. If the guest workers are paying in state taxes, I'm sure they'll be treated the same as an American citizen would be treated, with regard to tax laws.

If the guest worker family has an "anchor baby" while they're here, and their income is low, they will qualify for Section 8 housing, AFDC, Food Stamps and a myriad of other social programs for the "anchor baby", including Medicaid for the child's medical care.

I know what I'm talking about. I work in the healthcare field and many millions of "anchor babies" are being born every year in this country to illegals. These "anchor babies" are then fully eligible for all benefits from the social services sector. I posted a story about one case I have personal knowledge of on another thread: A Mexican illegal alien, aged 25, having her 10th child. She, personally, is not eligible for any welfare benefits, but all 10 of her "anchor babies" are, and that provides her with her "living".

If it is your opinion that the Bible is in line with Catholicism, you don't know much about either one. It shows.

And now you've jumped to another wild conclusion... that you know anything about my opinions! LOL

Well, there are some crimes that we would never legalize so your argument is null and void. And there are some lesser crimes that are too wide spread to arrest people for. So, you either spin your wheels getting 1 out of a million or you do something logical about it.

"Interesting that your religion is against the Bible and yet you feel confident that your own efforts will get you to heaven."

Which Bible...

King James Edited Version?

Martin Luther's Edited Version?

The Catholic Version?

The Latter Day Saints Version?

Im Catholic....and Im not a Christian...hmmmmm....can't wait to tell that one to my priest...

What will you do when your data base has 150 people using the very same Social Security Number.

You do the same thing the IRS recently did, you require that the employer forward the documents used to establish identity. Our company was just audited on this for the first time in 17 years that I know of, which shows that enforcement practices are being stepped up in the FedGov. Employers who fail to do so are imposed a fine. It will be easy to cross-check SS numbers and they will have the means to find these people merely because they are in the database.

You are assuming that as soon as this policy is implemented the wave of illegals will stop.

I am assuming nothing other than it will free up the INS backlog so they can concentrate on those who are not in the system.

If so many illegals are legal they will be in a position to demand higher wages. This will increase the "market" for non-participating illegals who will still work for pennies and will beat out the new legals for jobs.

Again, prevailing wage comes into play and stepped-up employer enforcement is necessary.

As many posters on here have said, this proposal is not set in stone, it will have to be debated on and passed by Congress. The Republican proposal I saw laid out a $1500 fine for breaking the immigration law, so they are not going unpunished.

You did not read my post. The earnings of these workers will not pay for the services they use. They are a welfare class because they are uneducated and do not speak the language.

The jobs they work are very low-paying and will not support their large families. This condition is similar to what we have now with the entitlement class. The proposed plan by the Administration will only serve to grow the welfare class.

I have seen the process in every city of America. Undocumented workers collect their pay and send it home to prepare the next batch of 'family' members to make the journey illegally across the border. Those newly arriving family members are often hooked up to immigrant services through another family member that holds a fake registration card. Or they receive government services and benefits by claiming resident or citizen status by virtue of holding a fake ID.

You argument about under the table pay is flawed. The amount of that pay is not sufficient to pay for the services received such as food stamps. Why else do you think these people cram themselves into living spaces? They do not earn enough! Minimum wage and taxation will be insufficient to support their nonworking family members.

But they are clever enough to know how to feed at the government trough. I personally know of one just in the last month who is in Section 8 housing, food stamps, WIC, free Medicaid, free daycare, two kids, pregnant with a third, husband in jail for murder that he claims was an accident!

This is what we see everyday.

Go to the public clinics, you will see long lines of these people waiting to receive medical attention and it's all free. Go to the courts and you will see these people in long lines before a judge because they had a vehicle accident, or they burglarized a business and home. They stand before the Judge giving the dumb look while their $60 per hour paralegal and their $90 paralegal (all paid for by taxes) get them a suspension or free on their own recognicance. Then they disappear.

These are not isolated cases. This is a steady stream of incidents. The courts and clinics and schools are jammed with these people.

Right now there is an investigation in our state how $3.3M was awarded by some hispanics in our government to an hispanic company for construction work ***in Peru***. This so-called company is a shell operation and this is the tip of one of many icebergs of shell operations. A candidate for governor here has stated he will not put up with it any longer and will prosecute those complicit in these thefts. These hispanics in the government and in the fake business are crying discrimination. They are the ones that have been spearing the funding towards these hispanic minorities. They are the ones that encourage illegal crossing of the border. They know there are no effective controls over who is and who is not a legal recipient of their budgetary largess. And they know there is power in numbers.

The problem is pervasive. It is so sensitive because we are not talking about a few isolated cases. The magnitude of the problem is mindnumbing.

I have talked to many many families in our city. Many of these families are blue collar union member famiilies that nearly always vote democrat. They are up in arms because they see the injustice. Their property taxes have increased 20% this year on a modest home yet there are no street repairs, larger school class sizes and more crime. Bu they are outraged when for example they go to the dental clinic and pay $3500 for braces for their kids and see a hispanic family that doesn't speak the language getting free braces paid for by their taxes. How do they know this to be the case? Because the receptionist is their friend and whispers to them "another Medicaid case billed for $3000". How do they know they are illegal? Because they have a degree of separation from the social services office worker who approved the service based on an "affidavit" though a paid for interpreter. What's worse is that the social service worker is often hispanic as well and steers approvals of benefits towards other hispanics, denying benefits to other ethnic groups.

And there is the sham of disability claims. Let's not even get into that.

Day in and day out clinics, courts and schools see this repeated. And the people that are here illegally to begin with have no second thought as to the pilfering of the system. They break the law and they will continue to break the law. Lie, cheat, steal is their MO.

So when someone uninformed voices a flawed argument such as illegal workers pay taxes and deserve government benefits, millions of Americans react with outrage at the injustice.

Now if the problem was limited to a few hundred thousand cases across America, then it would not be newsworthy. But we are sensitive to these issues because the numbers are in the tens of millions and that is a crisis.

The solution is a national act in the form of California's proposition 187. If there were no free or easily obtained services, the numbers would diminish.

Catholics aren't Christians.

An incredibly ignorant (and stoopid) comment. Can't wait to hear what pub you were in when you learned such nonsense.

No, I am suggesting that we work out a solution that is reasonable. I think President Bush is trying to do that. He is NOT for legalizing illegals if you would only stop and listen to what he is actually suggesting rather than only hearing what you want to hear. You are already pissed off with your own preconceived notion of what he said...you didn't really read about his proposal, did you?

Yeah? Why don't you do that? Engage in some thinking. To compare citizens breaking the speed limit to a full frontal attack on our sovereignty and nationhood is about the lamest thing I have ever seen posted.

Actually, MissAmericanPie, the lamest thing I've ever seen posted involves calling an attempt to bring our immigration laws and policies into line with reality "a full frontal attack on our sovereignty and nationhood". I don't want to behave like a liberal and accuse anyone who disagrees with me of being a racist, but the language of some of you critics does make me wonder. My point about the old speed limit is that in both cases we have laws not being enforced because the American people don't support actually doing so no matter what they say publicly. Could you really stomach gunning down innocent, men, women, and children at the border? Or a Gestapo-like "Show me your papers, please" campaign to hunt down every single maid, busboy, and gardener that "threatens our nation"? If not, we are going to have to do SOMETHING about legalizing the illegals we lack the stomach to round up and deport.

Hi John. I don't know the details of Bush's program, but one thing I know is true. Illegals will continue to enter this country in large numbers no matter what the government does unless 1) there are no available jobs at the wage levels than incent them to come to the US, and/or 2) employers in large numbers start going to prison for hiring illegals, thus causing them to get too scared to hire illegals even though it makes their workers' more "affordable."

Anything else out there John is just deflective noise and spam, and while maybe a carthatic outlet for frustration, just wheel spinning, by those who don't understand the powerful and ineluctible force of economics, which erodes and washes away the pathetic attempt of mere governments to to channel it in their chosen courses. Having a Bracero type program tends to buttress number 1, because it fills the wage slots illegals would take with temporary workers, that are within the system, and subject to a series of carrots and sticks presumably to play by the rules. Number 2 won't be tried, because those employers tend to mostly be good Republicans that cut checks to team Bush.

But what is the plan to go after the illegals who choose NOT to register? How are they going to round them up?

Which is how a large percentage of illegals enter the country today.

It was not my suggestion. It is what PResident Bush is proposing. Read his proposal before you jump on people.