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To: hresources
'The jobs that Americans won't do'
There are several problems with this unproven claim. (1) Who did these jobs from 1922 to about 1970 when immigration levels into the country were reasonable, at about 220,000 per year? The answer is native born Americans (and of course immigrants from the 1880-1920 mass wave and from the moderate years that followed). (2) Who does these jobs now in areas of the country where the immigrant population is low? Again, the answer is native born Americans. (3) But still, yes you are probably right that there are some jobs that Americans just won't do, but then the question that must be asked is why? Mabye some Americans feel it is beneath them, but for others it isn't that they will not do the jobs, it is that they will not do them at the going amount of pay and benefits. That is one thing often left out of this debate, which is that mass immigration works to suppress wages. Its simple supply and demand. If immigration were reduced, then you would see a combination of the following: Employers would raise wages and benefits to attract new workers and keep current ones; employers would find ways to make their workers more productive; and employers would invest in labor-saving technologies. There would be no crisis, the economy would not implode. Even noted late conservative immigration enthusiast Julian Simon said that immigration was not necessary for economic growth.

Now as to your produce example: The price probably would go up, but by how much?. Mabye it would be alot, but maybe it would be moderate. And of course if you think the alleged lower consumer prices and taxes immigrants (legal and illegal) pay justifies mass immigration, you shouldn't forget to weigh that against the extra tax burden they place on Americans. And then of course there are other non-economic matters, like the fact that most immigrants will go on to vote Democratic. Bush cannot out-pander the Democrats for their loyalty, and even if he could the cost would be alot of those conservative white voters whose vote has somehow come to be of lesser moral value in this age where 'diversity is our greatest strength'; so much so that the Supreme Court thinks it justifies racial preferences. And that's another issue; the collision between racial preferences and the mass immigration of people eligible for those preferences. And it should be obvious that the more people we have eligible for these preferences, then the harder it will be to get rid of this type of aff action.

So this is a complicated issue. The economics of immigration are not so clear, but it is almost certainly true that the people who benefit most economically are the immigrants and the people who employ them. Politically, there is almost no reason to be optimistic about the results of mass immigration for conservatives. The demographics of the country are clearly moving in favor of the Democrats. The GOP response is not to do what most Americans want and reduce immigration, but to apparently try to out pander the Democrats. They are doomed to fail, or lose their soul in the process.

But as to Rush Limbaugh: From the few times I've heard him talk about immigration it would be hard to draw a firm conclusion as to his views on this matter. The worst thing I heard him say was one day when he went on some left-wing sounding speech about how he had been contacted early on by 'anti-immigrant' groups wanting to enlist his voice to their cause, but they he wouldn't because immigration was one of the things that made this country great....I say it was left-wing sounding because that is the type of thing liberals often say when debating this subject, as opposed to reasoned points about what policy should be today. It was also left-wing sounding because like liberals Limbaugh used a bogus description of those in favor of reform. Most are not 'anti-immgrant' or even 'anti-immigration.' They are anti-mass immigration. They want levels of immigration reduced, not set to zero forever.

And by the way, most polls show a majority of Americans want the same thing.
43 posted on 01/06/2004 12:02:24 PM PST by Aetius
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To: Aetius
Most are not 'anti-immgrant' or even 'anti-immigration.' They are anti-mass immigration. They want levels of immigration reduced...
. And by the way, most polls show a majority of Americans want the same thing.

Actually, that is because the question is not put to them in the correct form. Try it this way.

Considering the low birthrate over the last 30 years, and the massive retirement wave about to hit the econonmy, do you think it is OK if we bring in a massive influx of workers, so YOU can be sure to collect the Social Security, that you just paid into for the last thirty years, while keeping it run as a Ponzi Scheme?

You will recieve a much different answer.

52 posted on 01/06/2004 12:11:15 PM PST by hobbes1 ( Hobbes1TheOmniscient® "I know everything so you don't have to" ;)
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