AP crowns USC (mythical) national champs (Final Poll is out)

espn ^ | 1/5/03 | AP

[Joe_October]

Why can't you just let both schools enjoy their split championship?

Why do you tarnish the true champion with your weasel words?

[raptor29]

I kind of thought so too!

[raptor29]

Heck, I didn't even see all those other 'Pac-10 wuss' comments you made to all those other people. Just read them all today. I trust you have a response to that Sports Illustrated article pointing out that in the last 7 games between the Pac-10 and your esteemed SEC, the Pac-10 was won six of them. And to finally win one, you guys had to match up your champion against the Pac's last place team, this year!! What a bunch of wusses.

[SoCal Pubbie]

Saying that acknowledging that the AP exists and has been a legitimate National Champion since 1936 tarnishes the BCS is like saying the Oscar awards tarnish the Golden Globes, or Miss America tarnishes Miss USA. Really, you're something else.

[SoCal Pubbie]

Conceding "we made a mistake," the head of the BCS said an NCAA basketball tournament-style committee might become part of the selection process next season - reducing the possibility of a split national championship in football.

Big East commissioner Mike Tranghese said Sunday several issues will be discussed in the coming months, including eliminating computers from the selection process and adding an extra Bowl Championship Series game.

The BCS came under intense criticism this season when USC, ranked No. 1 by the media and the coaches, was bypassed for Sunday night's Sugar Bowl. The Trojans were expected to remain first in The Associated Press poll after an impressive victory over Michigan in the Rose Bowl.

Oklahoma and LSU, which finished 1-2 in the BCS rankings, were invited to the Sugar Bowl, with the winner assured of getting the top spot in the coaches' poll.

It's precisely the sort of co-championship the BCS was supposed to eliminate.

"We've got a system that somehow leaves the No. 1 team in both human polls out of the championship game," Tranghese told a group of football writers. "We've got to do something."

Jesus dude, that's the HEAD of the frickin BCS for God's sake!!!!!!!!!!!! Is he tarnishing his own organization?

[LibertarianInExile]

If you read my prior posts, you know the reply that's coming. It's not spinning, it's honesty--the information Mandel shows doesn't show what you want it to. I'm not sure why you bothering posting irrelevancies. To reiterate my earlier point, you can claim cross-conference records and bowl victories all you like but if you have no injuries and a whole season to gel playing wuss teams, you have nothing to do but prepare for the bowl game.

I'm paraphrasing and perhaps elaborating upon my earlier comment, but the point is still that you are claiming X proves Y, when X only proves X, and Y just ain't true regardless of how much or how loud you holler 'X!' I'm hollering "Z!" back, and I admit only a playoff will prove you right or me right.

And when it comes, I'll be putting money on my contention. During the later rounds of the playoffs, you'll be drinking tea with your pinky up at Bushwood with Biff and Chet, or whatever it is you wuss conference defenders do, and I'll be sitting in Hooters, richer and watching the football matchups of a lifetime, sans PAC, TCU and BYU attempts at interference.

Incidentally, Mandel is a Big Ten grad and thus not disinterested in boosting PAC ratings, though it's hard to imagine how he could skew this stat. The mention in today's column, however, is purely because he can't stand the SEC righteously claiming football superiority, and SEC football fans can't ignore his spurious claim that a school in a wuss conference like the PAC deserves a national championship this year--especially in light of the fact that LSU actually earned the championship.

[raptor29]

You are embarassing yourself.

[LibertarianInExile]

Deny, obfuscate, ignore my early comments all you want. My point is the same. Your repetition of irrelevant information does not change it or even remotely weaken it.

Which PAC school did you attend, by the way?

[raptor29]

So let's see. You disparage Pac-10 football, claim it is not up to the lofty levels of the SEC, and when it is pointed out that in the last seven football games played between the SEC and Pac-10, the Pac-10 team has won SIX, you describe this as irrelevant. Can you imagine an independent, third party observer processing this information? I mean, the way you describe things, I would have expected the SEC to have won all the games, given there is such a disparity between the two conferences. Or maybe the SEC being the one with 6 of 7. But for the Pac-10 to have won six of the last seven, and for you to disregard this as irrelevant is the height of intellectual dishonesty. As I mentioned previously, facts to a liberal (and many times, a libertarian) can be problematic.

[LibertarianInExile]

You refuse to recognize the gist of my email--if the conferences aren't comparable, then the harshness of the season isn't either, and the teams in one will certainly not be as worn down as those in the other. Regardless of whether you're the best team in the world, if you have to play the second and third best week after week, as opposed to playing at best the 60th or 70th, the impact will be different and you will be hurting.

[SoCal Pubbie]

Ohio State's Clarett Flunking Two Classes, Including Phys. Ed. (Caught Sleeping in Class)

ESPN.com: College Football

Saturday, November 8, 2003 Clarett caught sleeping during class
ESPN.com news services

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- Suspended Ohio State tailback Maurice Clarett is flunking two classes, including a physical education course, according to two letters obtained by the Columbus Dispatch Friday.

Clarett has been warned that his failing or withdrawing from the classes would make it harder for him to be reinstated.
A letter by athletic director Andy Geiger said an African American studies professor had forbidden Clarett from returning to her class after he missed at least five sessions and slept during others.
In another letter, a university attorney warned Clarett that he was flunking a physical education course after he failed to turn in assignments. Clarett's academic troubles come on the heels of his suspension and a misdemeanor charge of filing a false police report about a burglary from a car he had borrowed.
Geiger declined to comment to the newspaper regarding the letters, saying that federal law prohibits university personnel from revealing details about students' academic performance. Vannatta did not return phone calls by the Dispatch. Clarett missed five of the African American studies classes in September and October, Geiger wrote. Although his attendance improved, Clarett dozed off during a few other sessions, the letter said.

"The university and the professor view this behavior as disruptive, disrespectful and unacceptable. Dr. Newton does not under any circumstances want you back in her class," Geiger wrote.
In a letter eight days later, university attorney Julie D. Vannatta warned that Clarett was flunking a course in the "principles of physical conditioning." He had failed to turn in assignments, Vannatta wrote.

Vannatta encouraged Clarett to drop both classes by Friday -- the final day for withdrawing from classes without getting a flunking grade. If he decided to continue in both classes, it would be "very difficult" for him to maintain an acceptable gradepoint average, Vannatta warned in the note.

However, Geiger's letter emphasized that withdrawing from the classes would present Clarett with other problems.
By dropping seven hours of classes, Clarett would become a part-time student, Geiger warned. That would mean the three remaining games on OSU's football schedule -- Michigan State, Purdue and Michigan -- would not count toward his suspension, so he would have to miss three games next year.

Also, Geiger warned, Clarett needs to obtain at least a D in five credits this term. If he fails to do this, Clarett would be deemed as not making "satisfactory academic progress," the letter said.
Percy Squire, an attorney for Clarett, told the newspaper Friday that his client has decided against withdrawing from the African-American studies and physical education classes. Clarett also plans to enroll in winter-quarter classes, Squire told the newspaper.

Clarett was out of town and unavailable for comment to the newspaper, and his mother, Michelle Clarett of Youngstown, declined to comment.

[raptor29]

You have relied on the subjective, I have provided the objective. You say you will 'sit in Hooters' and rely on your powerful conference to show the world how good they are. I simply suggest that we already have that, and the Pac-10 is kicking your conference's ass, 6 of the last 7 times, head up. Hell, if the BCS had put USC against LSU, and USC had won, you still would be arguing the same stuff and nothing would change your mind(lessness). So enjoy your dream world, say hi to all the girls in Hooters, go a little easier on the beers in there, and rest assured that Pac-10 teams will continue scheduling SEC teams for their non-league breathers each year. And I can assure you that there is no room for a Louisiana Lafayette or a Louisiana Tech on a USC schedule.

[PRND21]

6-1

[Terry Mross]

Purdue and Florida lost their last games and ended up 8-5. Arkansas won it's last game against Mizzou, which ain't no slouches, and ended up 9-4. Yet Arkansas isn't in the the top 25. This sucks. You can see I'm a Hog fan.

[LibertarianInExile]

The problem is you're attempting to say that these objective events provide unquestionable, 100% clear insight into an inherently subjective judgment. I suggest you reconsider whether you prefer looking at the NCAA 64-team playoffs or sit waiting for the basketball polls as the better arbiter of the number one basketball team in the country. If you're telling me that it's the latter, you should seek professional help.

As far as your contention that I would be 'arguing the same stuff,' well, DUH. That's because I've repeatedly stated that head-to-head matchups don't make sense in a non-playoff context. Certainly, a strong team from a weak conference can have a good game or two after the season. But over the course of a four or five game playoff, or as the 64 is, an 8 game playoff, that lucky streak will burn out. That's why strong conferences get more bids to the basketball playoffs and conference tournament winners usually only get one, too.

And I know there's no way USC would schedule Louisiana Lafayette or Tech--they're too busy desperately playing any powerhouse that will have them to make up for their wuss conference's pisspoor power ratings, so they actually have a CHANCE to go to the BCS...which they will then denigrate and whine about if they don't get in. Whine, whine, whine.

But you keep thinking I'm dreaming. The advent of playoffs will provide a bit of reality for you in a few years. Then you'll sip your chardonnay glumly after the inevitable second or third round PAC absence (and probably fair-weather-fan your way to root for a good football team).

[Joe_October]

Sounds like PC damage control. Why doesn't he resign? He feels bad enough to say one sentence in a hundred to appease those that just can't accept that they didn't make it. They will tweak the BCS to answer the squeaky wheel and make it worst again. Wow.

You still haven't answered whether you would fight so vigorously if the position of LSU and USC were reversed. We both know the answer to that question.

[Joe_October]

...since 1936 ...

The fact that they were once credible means nothing today. The AP used to be credible as well.

[raptor29]

I was thinking about another one of your recent feeble attempts to spin the head-to-head meetings between the Pac-10 and the SEC over the past couple years, where the Pac has won 6 of the last 7. You imply that the results of these games don't mean anything, because in your mind, the SEC teams, playing their tougher league schedule, are more beat up as the year goes by, while incredibly, the Pac teams are able to play their soft brand of ball and no one gets beat up or injured. But think for a minute. When would the SEC and Pac teams play? Sometime in the first month of the season (mixed in there with a Louisiana Lafayette and a Louisiana Tech), but before your so-called 'attrition' factor would have taken place, indeed well before a league game has been played, for either team. The other time the two leagues would play would be in a bowl game, when everybody gets at least a month off to get healthy! So even this incredible spin is shown to be folly.

As for your basketball question, I do prefer the playoff system, because the teams play head-to-head, which is the real indicator of who is good and who is not. You seem to feel the same way, which makes your discounting of the Pac-10's recent dominance over the SEC, winning six of the last seven meetings all the more strange. All I can say is that you guys should feel real happy with your half-title, and real lucky you didn't have to play USC, because that number would be 7 out of 8 right now.

[SoCal Pubbie]

First of all, if you actually knew anything about college football, you'd be aware that Mike Tranghese 's term as head of the BCS expires this year. Second, if you read the article it's obvious he's trying to change the system. Your refusal to accept any contrary opinon is really, really strange.

As for what I would do if another school was in USC's position, no of course I wouldn't object so strongly, that's a stupid question. But I would not say that the BCS is the only "title", or that the AP does not exist. The difference is, if LSU had been left out, or better yet Oklahoma since they obviously didn't belong, USC would be the unanimous No. 1 since they would have beaten either team and the coaches already voted that way before the bowl games, when they could still exercise free choice.

[SoCal Pubbie]

If the AP is not credible, than neither is the BCS since the latter uses the AP as part of its formula.