US relief package for illegal immigrants to be unveiled Wednesday

Hindustan Times ^ | Washington, January 4

[Lael]

I've read that, in different wording, on this board. They think he is picking up so many votes from the middle that he can afford to lose his base

I think you are spot on, and this may mean that the race gets really interesting.

Many people misread the Republican takeover of the House in 1994.

Yes, the Contract with America helped swing some disaffected Independents, and passage of two Gun Control acts in 1994 helped with some single issue voters.

But, also in the mix was GATT and NAFTA in 1994, both BITTERLY OPPOSED by Labor and rank and file Democrats...the Demo base.

In fact, it was Demo stay-at-homes which lead to one of the lowest voter turnouts in 1994.

Can Bush afford to 'rape' his base, just like the ever Triangulating Clinton did to the Demo base???

I think Karl Rove [ who doesn't have ANY of the 4 "success" letters in his name ] is giving BAD Advice.

And, when VINCENTE Fox visits just 5 days later, it's KATIE BAR the DOOR!!!

As on an earlier thread, his base is deeply divided on Offshore Outsourcing, and his reassurances to New Dehli Government to resist state laws to stop it.

Will this further self-inflicted political wound be enough to have another "squeeker"?

[GeekDejure]

Dubya has some arogant words for all legal Amerian citizens...

"Hey there, all you lucky legals... EACH IT !!!

.

[Lael]

I neglected to mention that, because of gerrymandering, only a max of about 20 House seats are really at risk in any off year election.

Without the Demo stay-at-homes, it is doubtful that the 53 Seat pickup was possible!

[BeerSwillr]

How can social security taxes, that illegal immigrants supposedly payed, be protected? Are these funds not credited to accounts that legally belong to someone? I'm sure that a large portion are. So what is the government going to do? I guess we'll get a glimpse later this week.

I dread this announcment. Nothing good can come of it.

[oceanview]

i still say, Dean could take north carolina. big demographic shifts in that state, influx of both retirees and workers from the northeast, big job losses in the furniture and other manufacturing sectors plus tech jobs losses in the research triangle area. Put the Gore states + NC together, and Dean takes it.

[oceanview]

we asked that question earlier, no one seems to know if they just make up a number that belongs to a "real person" and therefore pay into their account, or whether the number is totally false and the funds just collect in some kind of dead account.

i'm not sure how they can work it out without de-facto giving them some kind of legal standing; i.e, real SS numbers assigned to them, or some other kind of "guest worker taxpayer ID".

but its true, the best thing to do would just be to leave the status quo alone, as bad as that is.

[rubofthebrush]

Pres. Fox has stated there are 23 million illegal Mexicans in the US. I live in long Beach Cal and its just unbelievable whats going on. We have neighboring cities like Southgate and Bell where the majority are illegals.I have two neighbors on my block that speak English. What happens when the majority population in a city can't legally vote?

I'm so f##k-ing tired of hearing that stupid Mex music Boom Boom-Boom Boom. Sometimes I lose it and I crank up Smoke on the water just to pI$$ em off. There is a real cultural war brewing here. If Bush does this I'm note going to vote for him. And I'm not going to let this war on terrorism scare me into overlooking this.

[blueriver]

or some other kind of "guest worker taxpayer ID".

Sounds like it will not be restricted to Mexico. This more or less sounds like another kind of work visa that includes ss benefits. Sounds also like there will be no limits. More or less putting every American job on the world market. That is my take.

[mtbopfuyn]

Spit, spit. Where's my relief from illegal aliens?

[farmfriend]

Goodness, pulled from Breaking News. What to do, what to do?

Don't get me started, please!

[oceanview]

not every american job. lawyers, municipal employees, public school teachers and administrators, etc, will be OK.

if this happens, then I say every american citizen in every job category must unionize. to hell with it, if its the only way to get some measure of job protection, then I am for it. we can't have a society with a protected class of jobs for some people, the elites in their own little worlds of very high paid jobs, while everyone else is fighting it out with the rest of the world who make it into the country.

[SCalGal]

Sometimes I lose it and I crank up Smoke on the water just to pI$$ em off. There is a real cultural war brewing here.

I have it from a reliable source that Opera is best for getting your point across.

[american spirit]

Jr. Bush is showing more and more that political suicide is a family tradition.

[FITZ]

Sounds also like there will be no limits.

This will surely kill Social Security. If Bush offers a Social Security check for all who claim they bought a stolen Social Security card and worked here 1 or 2 years or so with it -- all kinds of people who never worked here will show up claiming they did. If one illegal used a fraudulent set of documents for 10 years --- and the minimum is 18 months --- what stops that illegal from claiming he worked 18 months, then his brothers each worked 18 months, then his cousins borrowed the card....

And what happens if 10 illegals show up all claiming to have used the same stolen number? There is no way at all to prove which one if any really used it --- so they'd all have to get a check.

Then there are the illegals who attempted to be more honest --- didn't go to the organized criminals who provide fraudulent documents --- these are the illegals who might have taken jobs Americans least did want, got paid in cash, didn't pay into Social Security with their stolen numbers --- and we're going to deny them the checks we give those who claim to have committed felony document fraud?

The fraud will be so extreme -- it's like hitting the jackpot for anyone who did or would claim they did steal a Social Security number.

[AD from SpringBay]

This is where he may lose my vote.

[FITZ]

They think he is picking up so many votes from the middle that he can afford to lose his base.

I'm not sure they really believe that all the Clinton and Gore voters really have switched sides and that Bush is facing a landslide --- why would Bush be so desperate for the votes of the Mexican nationals if that were the case? There is something else -- I think he may figure that providing them with Social Security checks the rest of their life will gain him their votes and that they easily outnumber the Conservative Republicans. I think it's a desperate gamble --- something like Davis did with the California drivers license --- a desperate way to gain votes against his recall. You just don't sell out your country except in desperation.

[DeaconBenjamin]

Shouldn't you let him know?

[AD from SpringBay]

And I also think this is all about buying the "latino" vote (like these guys are from Italy or something). The second largest, and growing, minority are the "hispanics" (like these guys are from Spain). He's trying to beat the demos to the punch by buying the votes early and often.

[BlkConserv]

[FITZ]

I'm pretty sure they don't really think these voters will be Republicans --- there is no evidence of that at all ---- but maybe just one time voters for Bush and maybe it would also boost Fox's popularity because he has accomplished nothing else. To me it seems they might feel caught between a rock and a hard place --- they know it's not good for the country --- as there is no evidence it would be --- but losing to the democrats is not good for the country either --- so they'll go this route.