Frightening to Ponder Whether Terrorists Will Defeat Democracy (Are you ready for some Islam?)

The Calgary Sun ^ | January 4, 2004 | Paul Jackson

[quidnunc]

I'm thinking the unthinkable as the New Year opens.

That is, that world terrorism may win its war against the western democracies and our civilization will be replaced by barbarianism.

It's a tough thought — a very tough thought.

But remember, Imperial Rome wasn't destroyed by a superior race, but by nomadic German tribes, living in caves.

Yet how can such a militarily-strong and advanced civilization such as we have today lose against disparate wild-eyed fanatics and rogue nations?

Ponder Vietnam: Here we had one of the world's two superpowers, the United States of America, going up against hit-and-run bandits.

The U.S.A. lost.

With all its conventional military might, it couldn't beat the guerrilla squads of Ho Chi Minh.

True, the U.S. never went full throttle against Communist North Vietnam.

The bureaucrats in Washington refused to let the military pull out all the stops.

Had Republican presidential candidate Barry Goldwater been elected in 1964, Hanoi would have been a pile of dust in days and the war over. But average Americans didn't have the stomach for that.

Ponder Kenya:

In the 1950s, the British were driven out of Kenya by a bunch of terrorists called the Mau-Mau, led by Jomo Kenyatta.

The Brits had military superiority in Kenya — traditional military superiority — but couldn't tackle Kenyatta's own hit-and-run guerrilla squads. Exhausted, the Brits capitulated.

Ponder Yugoslavia: In the Second World War, Yugoslav partisans held down several German divisions for years by constant and unrelenting harassment. Some historians feel if those divisions had been freed up the outcome of the war might have been far different.

Ponder Israel:

Every single day it is under attack from its internal enemies.

A husband and wife go off to work in the morning and don't know if they'll return home at night.

When their children go off to school in the morning, they don't know if they will return in the afternoon.

-snip-

[quidnunc]

Quote:

In Vietnam, Kenya, Yugoslavia and today's Israel, the regimes' opponents all had one "value" in common — they didn't care if they died in their quest.

The governing powers had one "moral" value in common, they weren't prepared to sacrifice their men and women no matter what.

Something to brood over in the wee, small hours of the night when you can't sleep.

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[CROSSHIGHWAYMAN]

Rome didn't have an air force, smart bombs, plasma tvs or a tradition of freedom.

Rome was the Soviet Union of that time.

[TaxPayer2000]

Many great American statesmen have made the mistake of referring to our form of government as a Democracy. It was never intended to be a Democracy, but a democratic Republic. There are major differences. Still, ask any 100 people you meet on the street or any 100 students in America’s schools what form of government we have and you will likely get 100 responses of, “a Democracy.”

James Madison’s Federalist Paper #10 discusses the issue of Democracies. In it he states: “Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives, as they have been violent in their deaths. Theoretic politicians, who have patronized this species of Government, have erroneously supposed, that by reducing mankind to a perfect equality in their political rights, they would, at the same time, be perfectly equalized and assimilated in their possessions, their opinions and their passions.” We can see from this that Mr. Madison would never have advocated a pure Democracy for his new nation.

In Federalist Paper #14 Madison wrote: “The true distinction between these forms...is, that in a Democracy, the people meet and exercise the government in person; in a Republic they assemble and administer it by their representatives and agents. A Democracy consequently will be confined to a small spot. A Republic may be extended over a large region.”

Madison continues in Federalist Paper #14 to describe a Republic thusly: “The effect [of having a Republic over a Democracy] (is to) enlarge the public views, by passing them through the medium of a chosen body of citizens, whose wisdom may best discern the true interest of their country, and whose patriotism and love of justice, will be least likely to sacrifice it to temporary or partial considerations. Under such a regulation, it may well happen that the public voice pronounced by the representatives of the people, will be more consonant to the public good, than if pronounced by the people themselves convened for the purpose.”

Essentially, a Democratic Republic is a limited government with enumerated powers (as specified in a Constitution) which is administered by persons elected by the people. These officials hold office at the pleasure of the electorate and must therefore strive to govern in a manner that is acceptable to the majority of voters.

The system breaks down when the electorate is misled by a biased news media or when special interests are able to manipulate the electoral process or, perhaps most significant, when the electorate no longer understands the working of the government and fails to exercise its proper oversight. For the system to function as our Founding Fathers envisioned it is necessary that the people understand the proper role of government as spelled out in our Constitution. It is not the function of government to ensure equality of outcomes. Any attempt to do so will eventually devolve into tyranny.

Concerning this tendency, in 1792, James Madison wrote in regards to property rights: “Government is instituted to protect property of every sort....This being the end of government....That is NOT a just government...nor is property secure under it, where the property which a man has...is violated by arbitrary seizures of one class of citizens for the service of the rest.”

The socialistic nature of our present-day government would have been abhorrent to Madison and the other Founding Fathers. Government’s function should not be to level the people to an equal mediocrity, but to ensure a level playing field upon which added effort or superior talent results in increased reward. That is the philosophy that built America and made it great.

[pabianice]

"Jitterbug", by Mike McQuay (1984)

"It is the near future and Saudi Arabia has been building domes throughout the world which contain the "Jitterbug" virus. Exposure leads to sterility, lunacy and death. In 2005 the virus is released in Australia and spreads to Southeast Asia. A demand is made that all countries succumb to the new Arab world. Over a series of years large areas, even whole continents, are declared uninhabitable until just a few places remain unaffected by the virus.

"The story takes place in the United States where Olson, a drifter, meets Gret, a callgirl of sorts. They go to Orleans and become involved in a plot to overthrow the Arab masters who rule the world. Through scheming with other Arabs who want to change the status quo, they manage to defeat the prince of the city and escape to start over again.

"The explanation above cannot begin to describe what an experience this novel turned out to be. Along with the story are appendices, a dictionary of terms (mostly Muslim) and a timeline detailing the Saudi takeover of the world. In light of current problems, this book seems especially apt." -- Reader, Lake Oswegao, OR

"This is one of the best books I've read. This book has it all, Although mainly a si-fi there is a heavey dose of fantasy and some horror. The world has changed due to sickness. The Arab's now rule the world and our story takes place in America in future Arab ruled cities. Most of America is waste land and there is a huge underground movement to over through the current rulers. There are mutant sports, asskicking body aromor, action and adventure abound. Mike McQuay left us too soon but he gave us some great books." -- Reader, Easton, MA

[Radix]

Radical Islamic nations, too, are bent on getting nuclear weapons, and they will surely use them when the time comes.

A gloomy thought indeed.

[RightlySo]

As Napoleon once said, "I'll take 10 troops with the will to fight over 50 cannons". What he said has always been true-- the will to fight on the battlefield (as well as the political will back home) is far, far more important than weapons and technology.

I think the author of this article makes some valid points. Worth thinking about. We have to keep morale in the ranks high, we have to be willing to fight dirty with the terrorists, we have to be willing to suffer some deaths among us to defeat them, and we can't let the liberals hamper our political will to fight.

On a somewaht tangential note, my God, can you imagine what would happen to all the hard work we've accomplished if a Democrat is elected in 2008? Think if Hillary were POTUS. (shaking head now)

I'll sincerely pray for otherwise.

[RonHolzwarth]

from the posted article: "Back in Israel, Netanyahu wondered what would happen if Islamic terrorism hit the U.S. or Canada. Could our people and our societies have the fortitude to survive such day-by-day threats to our lives. Suicide bombers in our shopping malls, restaurants, bars and buses."

Well, dammit, what in the hell do we have all those nuclear bombs for, then?

If it does come down to "Suicide bombers in our shopping malls, restaurants, bars and buses," I think it will be time to obliterate the societies from which they come.

In fact, it will be a moral imperative.

Later, when the radioactivity subsides, we can go get the oil or whatever we need from the ruins of the Middle East.

[pacpam]

I'm sending this to my Congressman to remind him of what is apparently being ignored..............Madison continues in Federalist Paper #14 to describe a Republic thusly: “The effect [of having a Republic over a Democracy] (is to) enlarge the public views, by passing them through the medium of a chosen body of citizens, whose wisdom may best discern the true interest of their country, and whose patriotism and love of justice, will be least likely to sacrifice it to temporary or partial considerations. Under such a regulation, it may well happen that the public voice pronounced by the representatives of the people, will be more consonant to the public good, than if pronounced by the people themselves convened for the purpose.” ...........

[Prime Choice]

The governing powers had one "moral" value in common, they weren't prepared to sacrifice their men and women no matter what.

Something to brood over in the wee, small hours of the night when you can't sleep.

Victory in this struggle will not go to the better armed; it will go to whichever side is most committed to see the war through to its end.

Every night I pray that side is ours.

[SauronOfMordor]

Rome didn't have an air force, smart bombs, plasma tvs or a tradition of freedom.

The early Roman Republic was a model for the US in the 1700's.

What happened to the Roman Republic was the wealthy got very wealthy. They found that it was easier to import cheap foreign labor (slaves) to do the work of their farms and industry than to employ Roman citizens. The citizens increasingly relied on government benefits in order to get by, and would vote for anybody who promised them better benefits.

The Romans allowed uncontrolled immigration into their territory by the barbarians, and allowed the barbarians into their Army. When a need came to fight, the barbarians in the Roman Army had no inclination to fight against their own kinsmen, and the taxpayers of Rome had no inclination to raise the money to defeat the barbarians, figuring the problem wouldn't affect them in their own lifetimes.

The rest is history. Don't think the parallels aren't here

[Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)]

Ref post #4. Great post!!! Thank you very much.

[RightlySo]

"Victory in this struggle will not go to the better armed; it will go to whichever side is most committed to see the war through to its end."

I agree 100%. Pray for Bush to continue to be forthright, do the right thing, and brave in his decisions.

Pray for a Republican in 2008. I can't think of a single Democrat that is willing to fight for our nation's sovereignty-- they prefer a utopian and myopic one world vision where America isn't good enough for the world. The world, truly, isn't good enough for America!

And I can't think of a single Democrat that is willing to strike terrorists preemptively.

[CROSSHIGHWAYMAN]

As Napoleon once said, "I'll take 10 troops with the will to fight over 50 cannons".

He certainly had better luck finding fighting Frenchmen then than today.lol

[cpdiii]

In Vietnam, Kenya, Yugoslavia and today's Israel, the regimes' opponents all had one "value" in common — they didn't care if they died in their quest.

In each of the above conflicts there was outside support for the rebel forces. Support from sovereign nations. Without that support the rebellions would have collapsed. Just as the rebellion in the United States would have failed without the help of the (I hate to say it) the French.

The rebel forces will not last in Iraq for several reasons.
1. We are slowing drying up their financial resources.
2. They only have support from a minority of the Sunni which are a minority in Iraq.
3. After George Bush is reelected in the Fall Iran and Syria will be afraid to support the rebels and terrorists as they do not want to be hit by George Bush (if he decided to wait until the election).
4. If we have any major terrorist incident in this country before the election, instead of decreasing support for President Bush the people will demand instant and crushing retaliation against nations that are supporting terrorist. This could be massive strategic bombing or tactical nukes to dig their leaders out of their holes. Why do you think we have a new program in the works to perfect small tactical nukes to attack hardened sites?

[Senormechanico]

"On a somewaht tangential note, my God, can you imagine what would happen to all the hard work we've accomplished if a Democrat is elected in 2008? Think if Hillary were POTUS."

If that happens, I am selling everything, and sailing to the tropics (again) even leaving the wife behind if she won't go.
Remember the movie "On the Beach"?

Life's short, sail fast.

[FairWitness]

But remember, Imperial Rome wasn't destroyed by a superior race, but by nomadic German tribes, living in caves.

I didn't know Germany had that many caves.