Tomorrow's Jobs

Barron's ^ | 1/5/04 | Gene Epstein

[Beck_isright]

"Good point. And by "fair trade", George W. Bush and the GOP have meant this to mean support for NAFTA, the WTO, a removal of steel tariffs that would lead to EU tariffs on American goods, an imposition of only the most minimal tariffs on a few Chinese goods (bras, etc.), support for the World Bank and IMF, etc, etc."

In other words you support the WTO and it's ability to supercede the United States Constitution in matters of commerce even within our own borders. At least now we know where you really stand.

[Texas_Dawg]

You, circa 1910

1910... and during every other historically minor stock market and overall American economy correction in the past 3 decades.

Japan, Mexico, India, China... is there a country that hasn't destroyed the US economy yet to these people? The sky is always falling. But for some reason our GDP just continues to boom and the real-dollar disposable income of the average American just continues to go higher and higher.

[Texas_Dawg]

In other words you support the WTO and it's ability to supercede the United States Constitution

Can you give me one example of authority the WTO has over what decisions America chooses to make? (Influence? Sure... but nothing more or less than the influence our trade partners have always had.) Give me one example of authority the WTO has over the U.S.

[Beck_isright]

"As it is though, it's a disgrace."

Jeb Bush is a disgrace?
Every cabinet position in state government held by conservative GOP officeholder is a disgrace?
Both houses of state government controlled by conservative GOP representatives is a disgrace?

If I remember correctly you have chosen to live in one of the highest tax regions of the U.S. I don't fault you for that, it's your choice. A stupid, retarded, unintelligent one, yet it's your choice to waste your personal income. Personally speaking the fewer of your kind that move to Florida, the fewer RINO's we'll have to deal with.

[Beck_isright]

" Can you give me one example of authority the WTO has over what decisions America chooses to make?"

From the Seattle Post Intelligence June 18, 2002:

The World Trade Organization has ruled that the United States must change its tax laws or face up to $4 billion in penalties. The ruling came after the European Union charged unfair trade practices against the U.S. for not requiring major corporations to pay tax on income earned abroad. Originally filed in 1997, the dispute has now been decided three times, all in favor of the EU. All that remains is for a WTO arbitrator to decide the final amount of penalty, which is expected by March. eco-logic reported in 1994 that the proposed WTO would have the power to require the U.S. to conform its laws to the dictates of the WTO, or face financial penalties. This fact was denied by politicians and the media. Lew Rockwell's wonderful article, " WTO Foments A Trade War," includes several quotes from those naysayers.

[Texas_Dawg]

The World Trade Organization has ruled that the United States must change its tax laws or face up to $4 billion in penalties.

Sigh...

Can you explain to me what would happen if the US (GWB, basically) just said, "Oh well." and just ignored the WTO's ruling? The UE would raise $4B in tariffs against the U.S. Can you tell me how this would be any different than if the WTO did not exist?

[Beck_isright]

So what you are saying is that we should allow other nations to override the Congress, who establishes the laws of the land per the US Constitution, and the ability to conduct business overseas AND if necessary decimate the ability of American capitalists to function independent of a socialist trade supervisory group. Astounding. Not only are you a clerk, you're a clueless clerk.

[Texas_Dawg]

So what you are saying is that we should allow other nations to override the Congress, who establishes the laws of the land per the US Constitution, and the ability to conduct business overseas AND if necessary decimate the ability of American capitalists to function independent of a socialist trade supervisory group.

Do you think by stating this is the case it makes it true? I asked you to give me one example of where the WTO supercedes the US, or, can override any US decisions, etc., and you clearly could not do that. Now, if you want to argue the WTO is not favorable to US interests or that you just don't like it, that's fine (and an entirely different argument), but you stated that it supercedes the US Constitution and US decisions. Sorry, but that is not the case at all, and you know it (I doubt you have the integrity to admit it though).

[Beck_isright]

So what you are saying is that an international body forcing the United States Congress to change the tax policy and existing law for the globalist cabal is not superceding the authority dictated within our own Constitution? I give up with you. You're a clerk who's not only clueless, but blind, deaf and dumb.

[Texas_Dawg]

So what you are saying is that an international body forcing the United States Congress to change

Forcing? Huh? The WTO makes rulings. The US Congress and President can abide by them or not. The WTO cannot force either of them to do a single thing. If they choose to go along with the WTO it is simply because they CHOSE to. Sometimes they do, sometimes they do not. The mere fact that sometimes they do not shows the WTO cannot force the US to do anything. It has not one bit of influence over US decision that countries independently levying tariffs against us would have (as they have done throughout our history), and it has not one bit of authority over the US Congress, President, or Constitution in any way whatsoever.

[Texas_Dawg]

that countries independently levying tariffs against us would not already have...

[Texas_Dawg]

See if you can spot Beck_isright (and his FRiends) in any of these anti-WTO rallies they have thrown:

From GreenLeft.org:

From SocialistAlternative.org:

From Anarchist.co.nz (Note the "fair trade" cry):

Funny how such "patriots" are in total support of the most rabidly anti-American groups on one of the major issues of the day.

[Orangedog]

I think someone summed you up pretty well last night

"Texas_Dawg: All hat, no cattle."

[riri]

That is really a weak comparison. You know those people are there for a myriad of different reasons. They do not have a cohesive cause or argument. They are anti-capitalists, anti-progress, anti-society, anti-technology, communists, socialists, environmental communists, etc. To try and draw a comparison btw them and people on this baord who are against the current unfair trade policies is just devious and lacks any merit. What's worse is you know it but you are trying to jumble the issue.

Some of those people probably like chocolate ice cream too. I must be one of them.

[Texas_Dawg]

They are anti-capitalists

Exactly.

And if you think they do not make exactly the same arguments against the WTO, with the exact same economic reasoning, as many on the FRinge, then you haven't been listening to either group very closely.

[Beck_isright]

It's known as extortion. Since we have had no President or Congress since Reagan with a backbone, we will surrender and abide to the rulings of the WTO and GATT. There are better ways. When you grow up junior, you'll realize that.

[Beck_isright]

" Funny how such "patriots" are in total support of the most rabidly anti-American groups on one of the major issues of the day."

Prove that I "support" any of these groups. Or meet me somewhere face to face and back up that statement. You'll find the Marine in me would eat you alive junior.

But then again, you can't find a fact to support any of your points, you fail to use logic or history to support your positions. It just proves that you are a RINO in need of a home. FR is open to all conservatives. Too bad they let RINO's in also. Your positions mirror that of the DLC. Shall we assume based on your logic that you are a contributor to them also?

I'm so entertained when I talk to you brave 20 something know it all keyboard warriors. And I wish we still had a draft so you could see the big picture instead of what you create in that perverse little universe of yours.

[1rudeboy]

By any standard except your own, my reply #399 is an adequate summary of the costs of imposing a tariff. Nonetheless, I enjoy exposing your sophistry.

So let's review the question you pose for the edification of the others on this thread: "What is the direct restriction on American business?" [your #156]

The impact of the safeguard measures [steel tariffs] depends on how increased duties affect the price and availability of each of the types of steel purchased and on the supply and demand conditions in each of the steel-consuming industries. Depending on these conditions, the effects of the safeguard measures on firms in different steel-consuming industries will vary. For example, while increases in steel prices have a direct effect on the costs of steel consuming firms, the impact of these increases on a firm depends on its ability to pass the price increase on to its customers. [S]ome steel-consuming firms were able to pass on the increased cost of steel to their customers. However, a majority of firms responding to the Commission’s questionnaire reported that they were unable to pass on the increased cost of steel and that their firm absorbed the increased cost.* [emphasis added]

_____
* Steel distributors accounted for the majority of firms that reported that they were able to pass on changes in the cost of steel due to the safeguard measures to their customers.

Source: United States International Trade Commission

See that? A "direct effect." Read it over. Roll those two words around on your tongue. Hang your head in shame.

[mac_truck]

The irony is that the EU trade minister who's been in Washington, meeting with members of Congress about rewriting the export tax credit legislation, is a French Socialist Party member. An affiliation that somehow escapes the attention of the free traitors .

Cheers.

[1rudeboy]

I have a little more faith than you, because I believe these foreign countries have more to lose than gain if they brazenly disregard their WTO obligations. In any case, trust but verify, as Reagan said.

Medical privacy is always a concern, but I see nothing inherently more secure about a domestic firm versus a foreign one, when any 12-year-old with a modem can hack into NASA.

Clearly, people with skill-sets such as certain software folks are national assets, but we could probably live without Doom 4 being locally programmed.