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To: BlackElk
"If you are complaining about my references to Vincent and Kuhn as Catholics, please settle down. I did so to contrast their admirable non-baseball lives (I am Catholic) with their abysmal and elitist baseball judgments on Pete Rose which were foolish and priggish. I agree with your assessment of Rose already. Being elected to the Hall of Fame is not an endorsement of moral character. Rogers Hornsby, Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker were all active in the KKK but no one ought to doubt that they all belong in the Hall of Fame."

Thank you for the follow up re:yr post. It appears that we are much the same in our opinions of Pete Rose and the Hall of Fame. Thank you for the additional info.

My steam is mainly directed to those who are making such sanctimonious judgements of Pete Rose.

As I said, its BaseBall, judge his performance in BaseBall and save the 'Holier Than Thou' BS for the church pews.

58 posted on 01/03/2004 10:26:57 AM PST by Khurkris (Ranger On...)
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To: Khurkris; JackRyanCIA
As I said, its BaseBall, judge his performance in BaseBall and save the 'Holier Than Thou' BS for the church pews.

It is about his baseball performance. When you enter into any profession, you agree to abide by the rules of that profession. Rose knew what he was doing. I know a guy that was a firefighter, and he committed a felony. He lost his license, and it is illegal for him to work as a firefighter. I know a bunch of firefighters who have been banned for life from firefighting for everything from drug abuse to shoplifting. Is it fair? Maybe not, but they knew what the rules were. BTW, I think it is fair. Without reference to other conduct, such as rape, drug abuse, steroids, assault, etc, gambling on the games is dangerous because it creates the opportunity to win a bet by affecting the outcome of the game.

Is there hypocrisy in sports? Absolutely. The NFL bans active players from doing beer commercials, but sells and advertises beer in the stadiums. Is that right? Probably not. But the players know the rules, and they know there are consequences if they break them.

Art Schlichter, the former Ohio State QB, ended up over $100,000 in debt to the mob (this wasn't chump change for an athlete in the 80s). He could easily have been co-opted to throw games. Point-shaving rings are broken so often now, they hardly get past the local news.

I have no interest in baseball, so it makes no difference to me whether he gets into the Hall of Fame or not. However, your accusations of people being "sanctimonious" are laughable. It's a pure business decision. There's plenty of shady stuff that goes on in competitive sports. Here's a link to a 2002 football game between UNLV and Wisconsin. The game was shortened because a generator went out, putting out the stadium lights. There's a little bit that isn't mentioned in the story, though. Betting in Vegas had been so heavily in favor of UNLV that the bookmakers were going to lose a fortune. Wisconsin had covered the point spread handily, and it was obvious UNLV wasn't coming back. After the last seven minutes were cancelled by the unexplained power outtage, the Vegas bookmakers cancelled all the bets on the game. It could have been a coincidence, and the Vegas bookmakers just took advantage of it. However, it also might not have been that hard to pay off a stadium employee to kill the lights, saving the bookies a bundle. There's too much shady stuff that goes on in gambling to let players gamble.

You take Pete Rose at his word that he never bet against his team. Of course, Charlie Hustle wouldn't lie. But Charlie Hustle did lie. He lied about his gambling. So he lied about his gambling, but he wouldn't lie about the types of bets he made.

Keep on believing it.

64 posted on 01/04/2004 12:25:06 AM PST by Richard Kimball
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