US Shrimp Fishermen Seek Tariffs on Thailand, China, Vietnam, India, Ecuador, Brazil

voanews.com ^ | 31 Dec 2003, 20:17 UTC | VOA News

[Destro]

US Shrimp Fishermen Seek Tariffs on Thailand, China, Vietnam, India, Ecuador, Brazil

VOA News

31 Dec 2003, 20:17 UTC

U.S. shrimp fishermen are asking Washington to impose tariffs on shrimp imports from Thailand, China, Vietnam, India, Ecuador, and Brazil. In petitions to the U.S. Commerce Department Wednesday, fishermen's groups accused those nations of selling shrimp in the United States at unfairly low prices.

Members of the U.S. shrimp industry say their business has been devastated by foreign competition much of which is farmed shrimp.

The American Seafood Distributors' Association says new tariffs would hurt U.S. consumers and are a bad idea.

A Commerce Department official says experts will look into the matter and may begin the complex legal process of deciding the merits of the case by January 20.

Some information for this report provided by AP and AFP.

[marron]

Shrimp fishermen should donate money to Greenpeace. They are doing what they can to shut down shrimp farming in third world countries, taking them to court, getting laws passed to close them down.

I am mainly familiar with Ecuador, where shrimp farming has taken off. The country is basically bankrupt, and the only thing they have going for them is some oil over in the Amazon, bananas, and shrimp farming. Greenpeace is doing everything they can to shut down two of the three.

[marron]

Or, American shrimpers could start shrimp farming...

[Conservative til I die]

In petitions to the U.S. Commerce Department Wednesday, fishermen's groups accused those nations of selling shrimp in the United States at unfairly low prices.

Awww, poor widdle US fishermen being forced to compete. Those evil third worlders daring to sell at lower prices. I don't get it, were these countries previously acting in collusion or cartel with the American fishers, agreeing to sell at inflated prices?

How can a price be unfairly low? ARe the Ecuadorian, Thai, et al fishermen purposely selling at a loss?

I know these are tough questions, but being a conservative with economics background, they make sense. I'm sure the Buchananinte nationalist-isolationist-protectionists will be out bellowing their shallow slogans, not even considering any of the economics involved.

[Rebelbase]

"US Shrimp Fishermen Seek Tariffs on Thailand, China, Vietnam, India, Ecuador, Brazil everyone."

[Destro]

Well costs are not the same in those nations as they are in America. Cost of boats-costs of labor-cost of processing-cost of insurance (yea right), are all lower in those nations. To say that they are shrimp fishing more efficiently is a lie. Their efficiency is probably equal in terms of man hours vs tons gathered. Everything else after that is unequal in favor of the foreigners.

[Conservative til I die]

I never said the third worlders act more efficiently. I know full well it's because their economies operate on a lower level than ours, so they can charge half-as-much and probably make twice the profit.

Of course, it's the same even within America. I wonder if people in the South would like to see their property rates and grocery costs triple so to be on an even plane as me in the NYC-metro area. I don't even make great money and I could probably own a 3-bedroom house in Alabama with my salary.

I also don't believe life is fair. Tough titty if the US fishermen can't compete. Then they should get into an industry where they can. I'm sure the horse-n-buggy drivers,ice delivery men, and typewriter manufacturers felt the same way when the automobile,the freezer, and the personal computer came into use, respectively. You either adapt to new developments or you die.

Moral of the story is: Life ain't fair and no one is entitled to work in a certain industry and be guaranteed top wage or a profit.

[cajun-jack]

life sure as hell ain't fair...if you aren't sure you can afford a 3 bedroom house in alabama(yu didn't specify sq footage) but say 1600 avg, depending on whether it is in mobile or birmingham...if you make 35 K a yr you should have no prob....

hell, most folks can pick up enough beer cans on the roadside to afford a 30 k house.

[ThanhPhero]

As we have been shutting down our own fishermen's access to shrimp and fish over the last 20 years or so with new regulations and restrictions and deals with Mexico (extending their 12 commercial mile limit to 200 miles), our producton costs have risen to the point that other countries can produce seafood cheaper. Viet Nam, and I am sure other countries are farming shrimp for export. That is not unfair and it is not "dumping." They are making their profit. Fishing is like textiles. It is a labor intensive industry that is not appropriate for a developed economy. It is a waste of resources that could better be used for a more profitible end. Subsidy and embargo are just a way to use even more resources to prop up the industry. I speak as a man who was a fisherman on the Gulf of Mexico in youth and loved it. But even then, 40 years ago, it was marginal. These are the sorts of industries that are appropriate for an undeveloped economy to lever itself into the developed world. We did it ourselves and have outgrown it. Trying to keep fishing and textiles as "viable" industries in the US is like insisting on riding your old bicycle 50 miles to your work because it was what allowed you to commute to your first job. It is wasted effort that is prevented from going into more efficient pursuits.

[Conservative til I die]

Not to be discuss salary, but I do make over 35K. That's basically an entry level, intro salary for a white collar position up here in the Tri-State area.

Of course, the odds of finding a job like that at that salaray in Alabama is near nil, so it all evens out I guess.

But where I live, to get even a decent 1-bedroom condo (I'm not into wasting my money *renting* a cruddy 1-bedroom for oh, the average $1200-1700 a month) I'd have to be making about $45 just to put a little away every month after expenses.

[marron]

The article states that the problem is shrimp farming. What prevents Americans from farming shrimp?

I have seen them. You just bulldoze a few-acre pond right near the water and flood it with sea water. Its quite simple.

The enviros hate them because the sea water leaks into the ground water if they aren't lined properly, but that is a strawman when you are right at the edge of the sea.

The other thing the enviros don't like is damage to mangroves, but there aren't a lot of mangroves on the US gulf coast.

Of course what the enviros really hate is anyone doing anything without their permission. They go after any kind of development in any third world country that might lift them out of the stone age. And first world countries, the same.

In Ecuador Greenpeace was doing everything possible to shut them down, organizing demonstrations, going to court, campaigning for new legislation to outlaw them. This in a country that was teetering on the edge of economic collapse. At the same time other NGOs were campaigning, organizing demonstrations and indian uprisings, going to court in Europe (!!) to try to shut down oil development and pipeline work necessary to put the country to work.

There is nothing to prevent the US from farming shrimp, as long as we are willing to confront the enviros. But the enviros probably don't like ocean shrimpers either, truth be known.

[ThanhPhero]

To say that they are shrimp fishing more efficiently is a lie.

The total of costs measured against production is the measure of efficiency. In Viet Nam it takes more man hours to produce something but less cost. The average worker in VN is far less skilled than the average American worker. He costs less. In an industry like textiles or fishing the labor costs are excessive because Americans are worth more, being better educated and trained but the industries are not worth the cost of American workers. Fishing and textiles do not require that high value worker to operate and, unlike janitor work and garbage collecting, can be done in other countries more efficiently. Yes, more efficiently-costs less=more efficient because total cost is the measure of total resources expended. If you prefer to ride your bicycle to work and thus forgo the better use of your time that an automobile would provide, well that is up to you but when you insist that everyone must ride their bicycles to work then you have become a would be dictator.

[Destro]

yup. PS: What do we do with our own great unwashed? In a nation this size they number in the millions.

[Destro]

...and growing....

[ThanhPhero]

. But the enviros probably don't like ocean shrimpers either,

They don't like anyone making money in such a way as to improve his life without the government being the primary agent of improvement. They don't like any activities that permit people other than themselves to live in a developed economy, that is- an economy that has advanced beyond Clovis points.

[cajun-jack]

I would rather make 40K in the deep south and have a full acre lot with nice neighbors and have some money left each payday than to make the big bucks and give most to the goobermint..and live in a shoebox where you don't know your neighbors...

hell, move south..sit on the porch and have a beer with your neighbors...grow a "salad garden"...only need a space like 12 x 12...good therapy and tension release...plus you get great pesticide, herbicide free veggies...

money ain't everything...it will buy everything...but what kind of price tage can you put on peace of mind and happiness??

jack

[ThanhPhero]

A growing economy that continues to improve its capital to labor ration raises the level at which persons are deemed to be in "poverty." i.e. poor in America royal luxury in Cambodia. Those inpoverty will see their lives improved with access to higher and higher levels of medicine, food, housing, TV's, etc so long as the economy is not hamstrung by mandated inefficiencies.

[Lawgvr1955]

Lt. Dan must be charging Forest too much for his labor.

[Destro]

You mean socialist govt good works policies for our great and growing unwashed masses?

[Lawgvr1955]

Hmmmm!! Shrimp!! Just remember the words of Bubba Blue:

Anyway, like I was sayin', shrimp is the fruit of the sea. You can barbecue it, boil it, broil it, bake it, sautee it. Dey's uh, shrimp-kabobs, shrimp creole, shrimp gumbo. Pan fried, deep fried, stir-fried. There's pineapple shrimp, lemon shrimp, coconut shrimp, pepper shrimp, shrimp soup, shrimp stew, shrimp salad, shrimp and potatoes, shrimp burger, shrimp sandwich. That- that's about it.