Americans `conned' into backing war, ex-general asserts

Chicago Tribune ^ | Dec. 31, 2003 | Thomas Ricks

[Rennes Templar]

Former Central Command chief Anthony Zinni denounces `ideologues' in Bush administration

Anthony Zinni's opposition to U.S. policy on Iraq began on the monsoon-ridden afternoon of Nov. 3, 1970. He was lying on a Vietnamese mountainside west of Da Nang, three rounds from an AK-47 assault rifle in his side and back. He could feel his lifeblood seeping into the ground as he slipped in and out of consciousness.

He had plenty of time to think in the following months while recuperating in a military hospital in Hawaii. Among other things, he promised himself that, "If I'm ever in a position to say what I think is right, I will. . . . I don't care what happens to my career."

[faithincowboys]

"In the old days of the British empire such actions were called punitive expeditions "

So is that what Operation desert Fox was about? I thought it was about destruction of WMD? Thanks for edifying me on how to spot the next Colonial bombing raid. Talk about con jobs! And Zinni has the stones to criticize Operation Iraqi Freedom, and you have the pebbles to defend him. Shame on Zinni and shame on you.

[CWOJackson]

"I'd wager he's done a lot more for his country than most of the people who malign him."

Utter BS, he stopped serving his country and started serving himself a long time ago. That's the problem with a lot of the staff war college jerks like him, they live in a war college mentality while it's the common grunts, sailors and airman who live in the real world.

Just like your attitude towards the sailors of the USS Cole who were senselessly killed because of his gross ignorance and political ambitions. For them and their families it's not just a freaking Oopsie...or well, fortunes of war let's move on BS.

And I have some knews for you boyo, if your think the troops admire and are loyal to flag officers who waste their lives needlessly you are too far gone to every know the truth.

[Ghengis]

The following men were generals who were elected President of the United States:
George Washington
Andrew Jackson
Zachary Taylor
Ulysses S. Grant
Dwight D. Eisenhower

You omitted Brigadier General William Henry Harrison on this list.

[Qatar-6]

Chief you are such a bitter man

Too bad for you guys, this War College graduate is going back in a couple of days

I'll do the best I can

You can do what you do best, sit and bitch

[CWOJackson]

"Too bad for you guys, this War College graduate is going back in a couple of days."

Yep, too bad for the people who do the bleeding and dying for the Staff War College types and their political ambitions.

But what the hell, perhaps this time around there might be someone who can explain to you how a ship tied up in a foreign port known to harbor terrorists is a sitting duck. That would be nice, perhaps more sailors won't get killed for folly.

[Qatar-6]

It's not that i'm incurious

It's just that I know enough to spot bullshit most times at a glance

What you mentioned doesn't make it past the first filter

Sorry lady, you are truly a loon. Just vote for Bush again - youll be of some use to us out there if you do that - and please, take your meds. All the best

Qatar-6

[Qatar-6]

It's not that i'm incurious

It's just that I know enough to spot bullshit most times at a glance

What you mentioned doesn't make it past the first filter

Sorry lady, you are truly a loon. Just vote for Bush again - youll be of some use to us out there if you do that - and please, take your meds. All the best

Qatar-6

[CWOJackson]

More people have probable been killed by our Staff War College then by our enemies tactics and strategy.

[Miss Marple]

You are quite right!! I should have known better. In all fairness, I took the names from a website that listed all the generals who had been president.

It was Kidsforclark.org. HAHAHA!

[CWOJackson]

I thought you were joking. I couldn't believe the site actually exists...and it's hysterical.

[faithincowboys]

Excellent point.

The arrogance of many in (and newly out)of the Armed forces is breathtaking.

Zinni has a paper trail in his wake that makes him look just terrible. I wish there was an American journalist (not hellbent on seeing us lose in iraq) who would grill Zinni on his past and how that discredits what he's doing now.

[faithincowboys]

I see you like to cut and run.

You have nothing substantive to say. I sunk your Battleship
fella and you got the Hell out of dodge.

[faithincowboys]

"Just vote for Bush again - youll be of some use to us out there if you do that "

This doesn't follow, but most of what you say doesn't. If Zinni is right and it's all been a con job, why in God's name would Bush's re-election help be of use? I really think you should stop being so mentally lethargic. Think clearly and an attention span longer than a than Paris Hilton's might be a good thing to acquire.

[CWOJackson]

For every Zinni there are many other officers who don't serve their own ambitions.

The problem with the Staff War College fraternity as a whole is that if left to them we would still be using horse mounted calvary and building battleships. When they get together at their social club called a war college they like to plan tomorrow's war using yesterdays strategy and tactics.

Just look at the comments reserved for the victims of the USS Cole...they are basically shrugged off. That's the war college attitude, it's a game for them. Unfortunately their games are life and death for the troops.

I note that much of the officer's corp was dead silent during the Clinton years, but a "few" are running their mouths off under President Bush. You have to wonder about their motivation...I don't.

[faithincowboys]

Why not a full accounting? I think many of us would put more stock into what he's saying if he had done a mea culpa.

It should have went something like this:

The American people and the World Community since the first Gulf War have been led to believe that Saddam had WMD and posed a threat to the region and the world. We put in place sanctions which crippled the countries economy. We bombed in the name of destruction of WMD--influenced by dubious intelligence, political considerations, possible desire for regional hegemony and dual loyalties of some top Pentagon and NSC officials. (which he must surely all beleive.)

I was a part of that. I followed the orders of a President facing impeachment. The Pentagon during Watergate was advised not to follow any aggressive moves that Nixon might have ordered. Unfortunately, The Joint Chiefs and I as head of Cent-Com went along with a dubious timed, politcally motivated bombing operation. The Op was done in the name of WMD destruction, but none of us had any evidence that he had them and the targets we had were based on iffy intel.

The Op was brief, diversionary and done without meaningful consultation with the UN, our traditional allies or the Congress.

The Op would last as long as the President said. A mission whose duration was determined by what was going on in DC and not Iraq.

After the Op, I gave rosy, unverifiable, false Bomb damage Assessment that miselad the American people and the world comunity.

I feel my experience with manipulation, hyped intel, unilateralism, lying to the American people from podiums with the Pentagon seal on them make me uniquely qualified to comment on the present War in Iraq and our current inability to find WMD....

****** If he said something like that, maybe I would listen, but he has leveled some awfully serious charges and has not come clean about what he knew and when he knew it and why in the Hell did he covered it up for half a decade or longer (and is still covering it up). He seems very accusatory and not at all accountable for his actions.

It turns my stomach and I don't care if he was the Best Man at your wedding or some guy that you want to share a beer with, he has a hell of a lot to answer for. And buy the way, he doesn't sound 40-60. He sounds 0-100. If it's a con job, what in the Hell should he be conflicted about. He should be dead against it.

[faithincowboys]

The Fifth Column in the Pentagon is alive and well. The loud mouths were quiet in the 90's because Clinton was running the Armed Forces into the ground and tranferring MIRV and ballistic missile tech to China, giving a Nuke Plant to North Korea, getting our cans kicked out of Somailia. Letting and perhaps instigating the removal of the UN inspectors out of Iraq (so he could bomb when he needed to). Advancing the global jihad by going after Serbian Christians (milosevic was a butcher, but the Europeans should have resolved the whole thing without us.)

He cut the military as Al Qaeda grew and we didn't hear anybody speak out of school.

Unbelievable.

Maybe Johnny Depp has it right, going to the French countryside and concerning oneself with the grape crops. Because it seems like there is too many people working against us. I need a Yard Dog and a cigarette. The stupidity and venality of so few never meant so much to so many.

[Qatar-6]

Lady

The "sunk your battleship" comment says it all

Live with your delusions, I could care less

It's disturbing to be allied politically with people such as you

Have a nice life

Qatar-6

[faithincowboys]

Have you even been to Qatar? You kinda sound like you wanted to play dress up. Happy trails if you are legit, but you might want to toughen yourself up. Judging you by how your coming off, Patton shit bigger than you.

[CWOJackson]

Look at the up side. When our military planners can waste hours posting on a web site things must be awfully quiet in Iraq.

[Cold Heat]

I have been been perusing the balance of the thread, and I must say that you have let your emotions cloud some of your responses.

I have a suspicion (at least I hope so) that General Zinni has done likewise.

This obvious dislike for Rummy and Wolfowitz in some military circles is a bit worrisome at times, but few people, including yourself, who has voiced dislike for these fellows have expounded on that view beyond the personal level. They just feel dislike and almost hatred yet have little beyond this to say.

Civilian managers of all stripes are not looking for loyalty and love from those they manage. They are looking for attention to the mission and performance. Also they want their desires met with a measure of compliance. It is not a popularity contest for sure.

I am sure that everything Rumsfeld has done or changed was in the best interest of the service and the country. No body has claimed anything that disagrees with this premise except for some very vocal ex-employees of the pentagon who have a direct line to the Washington Post.

To do this while we are up to our asses with State Dept. idiots who are doing likewise and an election barfathon underway is just plain treacherous to the mission and the goal of ridding this planet of the scum that has been ignored for so long.

If Zinni continues his tirade he is directly affecting the outcome of the war and people like him who have so much knowledge and connections with our military should not be openly displaying this cynical crap in the press. The first thing the American public and our servicemen hear is the parroting of these comments by the opposition people in the foreign press.

The New York Times and the Washington Post are the bibles for the America haters and highly placed experts like the General will be quoted by every enemy we have. Most of these critisisms will make it to these papers whether true or not.

He has nothing to gain by this and we have everything to lose. The actions have already been taken. The war has been procecuted and we are well on our way to reconstruction. His plan is at the very least a moot point and subject of dicussion.

Does he hope to change the minds of the Defense Dept or is he trying to position himself with the opposition?

I suggest you sit back and think about the motives for doing what he has done and don't just think it was a misquote. Some of the FReepers that you have been critical of, may not have hands on experience with the mission, but they do have a uncanny ability to peel away the facade and get to motive and truth.

It could be that your loyalties may be misplaced in this instance. It could be that Zinni has gone over to the other side for reasons that none of us know. Could all this be sour grapes over a damn artillery piece that did not make it through the funding process? Could it just be sour grapes for personal reasons?

At what cost?