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To: evets
"Eve was deceived. (Anyway, Adam was the final authority.)"

True, Eve was deceived, but there is no doubt that she knew God's command and chose to break it because she corrected the serpent on what God's command was.

Eve was deceived because Satan told her it would make her more like God and that she would not die. But there is no doubt that she knew God had commanded that it not be eaten and had said she would die. Her deception occured because she chose to listen to the serpent over the words of God that she knew.

Adam's authority couldn't have saved Eve. Eve had already eaten. Adam's choice was to either share in Eve's fate or let her face God's judgement alone. I don't know if Adam fully understood what God's judgement would be, but Adam chose to follow Eve in this.

19 posted on 12/30/2003 1:43:54 PM PST by DannyTN
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To: DannyTN
And men have been done in by chasing tail ever since.
20 posted on 12/30/2003 2:05:03 PM PST by brbethke
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To: DannyTN
Besides Eve, there are other woman in the bible that have decieved there man also! This should be easily to recognize the big problem here! Just read about Sarah, Abraham's wife. Or even Deliah who caused Sampson's down fall. There are others in the bible!
22 posted on 12/30/2003 2:16:03 PM PST by ibtheman
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To: DannyTN
the following is from an excellent website: SalvationHistory.com (It is Catholic)

Let's back up a few paces. Let's look at our characters. First, who's this "serpent"?

We're all used to the storybook Bible image of the long, thin snake slithering around the apple tree. But we might have to change our visual image of this scene.

The Hebrew word used to describe the "serpent," nahash, implies something much more deadly.

Throughout the Old Testament nahash is used to refer to powerful, even gigantic, evil creatures. Isaiah calls the nahash a sea dragon, the great Leviathan (see Isaiah 27:1). Job also uses nahash to depict terrible sea monsters (see Job 26:13).

This is clearly the image the Book of Revelation has in mind when it describes "a huge red dragon" in the heavens, "the huge dragon, the ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, who deceived the whole world" (see Revelation 12:3,9).

The Church, of course, has always interpreted the serpent in Genesis 3 as Satan, the Devil in slithering form (see Catechism, nos. 391-395). So we know, as readers, something that Adam probably didn't know - that this encounter with the serpent was a test against evil, a battle for the soul of mankind.

But we need to see what Adam saw. Once we appreciate that the serpent was a lot more than a little garden-variety snake, we begin to understand why Adam failed in his duties to "guard" his wife and Eden (see Genesis 2:15).

c. Scared Unto Death?

To put it bluntly: Adam was scared to death, scared of dying. He saw the serpent as a threat to his life.

We know that Adam understood what death was. How do we know that? Because God warned him that he if he ate the fruit he would die (see Genesis 2:17). If Adam didn't know what death was, God's warning wouldn't have made any sense.

Adam was scared that if he didn't do what the serpent wanted he would be made to suffer and die.

This story, this understanding of Adam's failure, may be behind a passage we find in the Letter to the Hebrews. It says the Devil has "the power of death" and says also that "through fear of death," the human race had been held "subject to slavery" (see Hebrews 2:14-15).

That doesn't mean Adam didn't have any moral choice or responsibility in the matter.

He chose to save his life, but wound up losing it. He feared dying more than he feared disobeying the Father who loved him and gave him paradise. And in this he plunged the whole human race into slavery.

d. Left Holding the Fruit

Hold on, a minute. Why are we talking about Adam? Why is it his fault? Isn't the whole story about Eve?

After all, the serpent first addresses "the woman." In fact, the phrase, "the woman" is used four times in six verses and the man doesn't come into play until the very end, when it's mentioned that "her husband" was also "with her."

Clearly, it would seem, Genesis wants us to know that it's the woman's fault: She did all the work, negotiating with the snake, weighing the pros and cons, and finally taking the fruit. The man just ate the fruit the woman gave to him.

But is that really the point? Why does St. Paul and the tradition of Church teaching after him, understand this episode as depicting the sin of Adam (see Romans 5:12-14; 1 Corinthians 15:22, 45)?

First, we need to stress what the story only tells us at the end - that Adam was with her all along (see Genesis 3:6).

In fact, in the Hebrew, every time the serpent says the word "you" he's speaking in a tense that we don't have in English - something like "second-person-plural." He's saying, in effect, "you guys" or "y'all."

So Adam was on the scene the whole time. Why didn't he speak up, why didn't he take up the serpent's challenge?

That seems to be the point. In his fear for his own skin, Adam left his wife hanging, left her to fend for herself. He was "her husband," the text emphasizes. Husbands are supposed to stand up for their wives - even lay down their lives for them. That's what marital love is (see Ephesians 5:25).

29 posted on 12/30/2003 3:56:17 PM PST by reed_inthe_wind (That Hillary really knows how to internationalize my MOJO.)
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To: DannyTN
 ¶And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

...her husband with her... literally her husband who stood by.

Adam was there the whole time. He fully knew what was happening. It wasn't a simple disobedience, it was full on rebellion to God's world order.

He knew the command of God-- he heard it from Him directly, whereas Eve heard it from Adam. Coincidentally, they also added to God's Word when they stated that they were not to touch the tree. God never said that. The end of Revelation lays out some pretty harsh punishment if anyone adds to or takes from His Word.

46 posted on 12/31/2003 5:16:24 AM PST by ovrtaxt (The income tax is the monetary equivalent of gun control.)
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