You are always reasonable, even when we disagree, and I appreciate that. If you do not mind, I would like to ask you a question that is a little off-subject.
I am asking this seriously, and will not criticize your response, even though I will almost certainly disagree with it. What is there about, "heaven," (or whatever your notion of the 'afterlife' is) that appeals to you? Why would you want it? I am presuming it is not just to escape some kind of suffering or torment you see as the alternative, but, if that is the case, please say so.
I am still waiting for someone to explain why anyone would want to go to heaven. There is not in any description of the afterlife by anyone I know that has one thing about it that appeals to anyone in this life, and have always wondered why they think they are going to just love in the next life what totally bores them and they have no taste for in this life, and why they think never having any of the things they most enjoy in this life will satisfy them in the next?
Hank
For now, I will say dittos and good night, Hank.
Atos
This place has been a frozen wasteland since last we spoke on this subject. Mt. Hood however was fantastic for boarding on Friday, and although the fetching mrs. atos and I did not get to run the miracle mile, we did spend time contemplating your question. The phrasing of your inquiry being as unique as it was, inpired me to convey it to her as well. Her answer remains my personal wisdom. My insights I will share, brief as they may be.
Mt. Hood is a tremendously spritual place for us. It was the destination for a first date, we were married there, and have had numerous wonderous experiences there. I have never really bothered to ask whether it exists. And Friday, like most other days in the Pacific Northwest, it is impossible to see the mountain at all. Nevertheless you know it is there. The knowledge of past experience serves as evidence for the journey and that knowledge is confirmed the moment you navigate the ice and snow to arrive at Timberline Lodge (sans Jack Nicholson). Believing it is part of knowing, so there is no degree of faith involved with my consideration of the mountain's presence. There is a degree of faith involved with regard to our driving ability, the mechanical state of my vehicle, road conditions, avalanches, accidents, and other unexpected phenomena, most of which we have some control over. There is also a significant degree of faith in that the mountain, a lightly sleeping volcano, will not explode when we are on top. This is something over which, we have no control. It could end our existence in an instance. We would not, desire that to happen, but it is, nevertheless, a possibility as are any number of uncontollable events that are even more probable and yet do not deter my journey and the expectation of fulfillment. Do we ponder all of these things when we set out on the journey? Perhaps at some subconcious level we do. And yet, we set out for the mountain without questioning the ultimate fulfillment.
Will it happen? It will.
What if it doesn't? If we pondered that excessively, then we would never consider going to begin with.
It will!
Pardon the metaphorical expanation, but I think that it serves to show that in actuality I do not find myself pre-occupied with the status of heaven or the existence beyond the human state of being. It is an interesting way to ponder the existence of God by reflecting on one's notions of heaven. But, both are equally considered, at a personal level, as aspects of faith. It influences beliefs to some degree and may even guide actions as happens from time to time. Yet rarely is it used as a substitute for reason in THIS current state of existence and with regard to my real motivations. That would render the world subject to my beliefs and be in direct contradiction to knowledge... the primary tool that we posess to engage this existence; the goal of which is survival to the extent that is humanly possible.
Perhaps what develops here(n) is a starting point for the next step(n+1). ??? And perhaps Mt. Hood will immitate its twin sister next time I am up there. I really do not have knowledge or control of either or the consequences thereof.
I believe in something more. I choose to live here.
All else will happen as it does...
...and accordingly.